Wednesday, October 15, 2008

Oktoberfest ?

Anonymous said...

Sorry to interrupt, but did anyone hear about how the LCMS conference in Kewaunee, Illinois for the "Oktoberfest" at which four former WELS pastors gave presentations about the WELS went? (I heard that at least one of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary professors was going to go to defend the WELS.)

October 15, 2008 11:24 AM

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, if I had to guess how it went, I'd guess that they set up a bunch of strawmen, savagely tore them to pieces, shared a smug sense of superiority, and then had one too many beers.

Anonymous said...

I was there. Wrong on the first three counts.

Anonymous said...

Funny, the Pharisees accused Jesus and his disciples of being drunks.

Anonymous said...

I wuzzz there tooo (hic)

John said...

If there are any conference papers available I would glad post these for discussion.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I would also like to read those papers. Is there a reason they haven't been made available to the public?

Anonymous said...

"Well, if I had to guess how it went, I'd guess that they set up a bunch of strawmen, savagely tore them to pieces, shared a smug sense of superiority, and then had one too many beers."

Thanks for the factual and Christ-like evaluation to this conference you did not attend!

Anonymous said...

A@10:45,

Have you bothered to ask anyone involved in the conference? I'm not sure Bailing Water is on everyone's list of places to make public announcements... :)

Anonymous said...

"Is there a reason they haven't been made available to the public?"

Yes, I'm sure it's because of the massive conspiracy against the anonymous posters of comments on this blog. shhhh..... Keep that to yourself.

Anonymous said...

"Thanks for the factual and Christ-like evaluation to this conference you did not attend!"

Ha,hahaahhahahahahahahahahahahh.

What do you mean? People on BS Water would never make unsubstantiated claims about someone else.

hahahahaahahahahahaha.


Kettle

Anonymous said...

WELS and Missouri have been working together with ELCA and meeting together for many years. So what is the big whup about this one? I feel sorry for them...that they had to meet in Kewanee, which is the fertilizer capital of the Midwest.

Shirley Goodness

Anonymous said...

Dearest "Shirley",

It was an all LCMS conference.

Dandy Dan

Anonymous said...

"Yes, I would also like to read those papers. Is there a reason they haven't been made available to the public?"

Hmmm, I think if you had attended, you would have been able to hear them for yourself. Of course, then you would have to give a real name and show your face in public, which is not the Bailing Water Anonymi way.

Anonymous said...

"Hmmm, I think if you had attended, you would have been able to hear them for yourself."

I guess I should have been there with the other 4 people that attended the conference.

Oh ok...afraid to show the drubbing you gave the WELS? Let's all huddle together and rip the synod that once provided us our paycheck.

At least the Church and Change folks put their ideas and papers out for people to read. (Even Kelm puts up his sermons)

Anonymous said...

For the record, I the anonymous of 7:15 never gave the WELS a "drubbing". Don't know who you think I am, but you're probably wrong. Wasn't it the C&C crowd who were caught blatantly plagiarizing? I'm guessing I hit a nerve and that you didn't attend the conference. By the way, you have no idea whether I did either. I'm just arguing in the standard BW pattern.

Anonymous said...

Ok mr. 7:15 hmmm...

It is rather ironic that this "motley" group of former WELS folk got together to have a conference about the WELS when they aren't in the WELS...huh.?

Or maybe this was just their "here I stand" moment.

Anonymous said...

"Hmmm, I think if you had attended, you would have been able to hear them for yourself."

Wait, you're faulting me for not traveling almost 1,000 miles to come to the conference? Seriously? That's your reasoning for not publishing the papers? Wow, they must have been more spiteful and derogatory than I even imagined. If you really stood for what was said at the conference, why not publish the papers for all to read? Why would I travel 1,000 miles to a conference that is so ashamed of itself that it doesn't even publish its own papers?

MT said...

Anon at 9:34,

There are a lot of unfounded assumptions in that last post of yours. If you really stood for what is right you would shut your mouth before you further slander the good pastors that attended and presented at this conference.

I know, the law hurts. But I'm comforted to know that there are pastors who care enough about the Gospel to criticize and expose the WELS, even if it means they are no longer welcome by that sect's abusers and slanderers.

-MT

Anonymous said...

I heard they were sacrificing little WELS children and drinking their blood!!!

SM said...

"I heard they were sacrificing little WELS children and drinking their blood!!!"

Oh, it is much worse than that...I heard that they believe it is necessary to do good works. The poor WELS--when will those motley crypto-papists leave them alone?

-SM

Anonymous said...

Dear crazy anonymous person,

Why do you think I was even in attendance at this conference? Just because some here disagree with you does not mean that we were there. There seems to be no actual proof that this was as anti-WELS as you assume. As for why these papers haven't been published yet, who knows? Probably no one commenting here. It has only been a few days, maybe they're still coming. Instead of spewing paranoia here, maybe you could ask those who presented or the host congregation. Over on Gottesblog Pr. Eckardt had a short summary of the event. That might be a better place to look for information than here.

John said...

Calm down folks! I'm working on gathering some of the papers that were presented at the conference...
patience..

Anonymous said...

John,

Have you contacted the presenters? Let's be sure we have permission to be distributing things here and that we have accurate info to tear to shreds. Otherwise, the idiotic baseless accusations of above will just continue, which does no good for anyone.

John said...

I have contacted the conference organizer...

Anonymous said...

John,

Thanks for doing the reasonable and honorable thing. As for Mr. Anonymous who lives 500 miles from Kewanee, don't forget your meds this morning.

Anonymous said...

Oh the hypocrisy!

First MY says: "If you really stood for what is right you would shut your mouth before you further slander the good pastors."

Then he says: "...expose the WELS, even if it means they are no longer welcome by that sect's abusers and slanderers"

Hmm, talk about slander, huh?

So that's what this conference was about? Exposing the WELS as a sect replete with abusers and slanderers? No wonder they don't want to publish those papers!

Anonymous said...

Um, Mr. 7:37AM, I think the abuser and slanderer comment may have been directed at you, not so much the WELS. I didn't write it, but that's my guess.

Hey John, great humor blog! Where do you find these commenters? These cannot be real people.

Anonymous said...

Was anyone else here at the WLS symposium? One speaker misrepresented the position of an LCMS theologian and then spoke vehemently against his straw man argument. The latest WLQ has plenty of harshness for the LCMS too.

Or is that ok? We just can't criticize ourselves in the WELS?

John said...

Could you please provide a bit more detail on the WLS symposium.

And I don't have access to the WLQ. Could you summarize the content also.

I would be very interested in hearing about these 2 points. It does seem to me that many in the WELS are quick to jump all over the LCMS rather than looking inward too.

Anonymous said...

The symposium papers are online at the WLS website. I'd rather not summarize the WLQ articles because I'm sure some here would view any summarizing as misrepresentation. Maybe you could ask your pastor for his copy.

California on my mind said...

Yes, I was at the WELS Symposium. I don't recall reading or hearing any LCMS misrepresentations. What exactly are you referring to?

Anonymous said...

"It does seem to me that many in the WELS are quick to jump all over the LCMS rather than looking inward too."

As if those in the LCMS aren't quick to jump all over the WELS? The Kewaunee conference could have spent their time discussing problems in their own LCMS (there are more than enough to discuss), but instead spent all their time jumping all over the WELS. Or look at any post here about church/ministry or women's roles--they are simply opportunities for LCMS people to mock and belittle the WELS.

It happens both ways. Let's not pretend it doesn't.

Tim Niedfeldt said...

These kind of rants are generally uninteresting to me and accomplish nothing but its always fun to yell over the fence. On my son's Marine boot camp schedule he is working on pugil stick's today. I thought it was an appropriate analogy for this discussion. a fun activity where you can beat each other with sticks but in the end you learned some good offensive and defensive manuvers

My question is in a very general sense...why does it matter who criticizes whom or whether anyone is bashing anyone at each other's conferences?

If you have a defensible position...go for it. If its not...wait for others to sling it back to you. What you call slander around here is is rather trivial. How can anyone be in the blogosphere and be so sensitive. Perhaps 15 years of chat rooms, message boards, and now blogs have hardened my concern for personal attacks.

The best way to prepare a position is to throw it out amongst those who disagree. Hence my visits to here in the first place. Sometimes you are pleasantly surprised and learn something...sometimes you just know what to prepare for in defense of your position. I think the MM papists should have conferences all the time. its all the more to find out their wacky positions.

In the end all thse kinds of things are so much on the fringe of the mainstream WELS that the hardest thing you will need to overcome is apathy.

Long lost Tim

John said...

Thanks.. I found the symposium papers online: papers

John said...

Tim - who are the "MM papists?"

Tim Niedfeldt said...

The motley magpie types

Anonymous said...

"The motley magpie types"

Ditto. They call themselves catholics!

Anonymous said...

"Ditto. They call themselves catholics!"

Ditto. They talk about the Mass and private confession and call themselves "father."

Anonymous said...

Ditto. Sort of. Actually, others call them father.

Anonymous said...

Wait! Didn't we all used to call ourselves catholic in TLH?

Crap, we're all papists! Except for those like Tim who have the presence of mind to ditch 2,000 years of Church history.