Saturday, October 25, 2008

Issues in WELS ? aren't there still issues?

Anonymous said...

I talked with my pastor who is and has been outraged with what has been going on. He is not strong enough (or perhaps outraged enough) to publicly take a public stand ALONE. He would like to see a large group of pastors take a stand TOGETHER against all this stuff.

The beginnings of taking a stand together was happening in the Issues in WELS group...but they have disbanded or suspended for some reason. It makes it appear that all is well in WELS.Our District President does not seem opposed to the Church and Change stuff.

I will try to talk with him once more.Can we all get our pastors together so they can take a public stand?

QUESTION: If a pastor leaves WELS before retirement age, does he lose his entire pension? Is it $$$ that is preventing some from leaving or taking a chance that taking a firm stand against things will get them ousted?

October 25, 2008 3:11 PM


Most pastors are still afraid to put their neck on the line. Yes it is interesting that since the financial issues in the WELS is no longer a crisis the ISSUES IN THE WELS group has disbanded and is not holding forth on their original concerns.

I don't believe that a pastor will lose the retirement money that has been put away if he does leave (although the pension plan is very small).


Anonymous said...

A pension plan is vested and owned by the individual. Someone with five or more years in the WELS plan is vested, the last I knew. The denominations used to take away pensions to punish people. Everyone still remembers it. That is why one well known professor at Mequon never said anything. His son is teaching at the college level and never opens his mouth, except to say the wrong thing.

Anonymous said...

yeah, but the pension benefits they do get keep a retired pastor way below the poverty line. my father receives a mere $280 a month pension after 34 years of faithful service. cost of living increases?? unheard of. oh yeah, he got one nearly five years ago and that was only $12. what a joke.

Anonymous said...

All that the issues group was concerned with was the Money...

Notice how quiet WELS pastors are as the Church and Change pastors filter back into 2929.

Anonymous said...

"He is not strong enough (or perhaps outraged enough) to publicly take a public stand ALONE."

Cluck, cluck.

Anonymous said...

I sympathize with the ministry workers and their poverty level pensions. That certainly is not the right way to compensate a lifetime of working for the church.

However, there are several sides to the issue. As a ministry-administrated organization, this is the retirement plan WELS pastors determined for themselves. Generations ago, had the synod employed professional WELS accountants, financial planners and lawyers to assist in administration, pastors and teachers may have found themselves in a better retirement today.

WELS, to some degree, is finally recognizing that pastors cannot be all things in all situations. There is much knowledge to know in life and we certainly can't know it all. God gives different talents and training to different people. We should allow each the chance to use them for the Lord.

Anonymous said...

>>Notice how quiet WELS pastors are as the Church and Change pastors filter back into 2929.<<

Maybe they're quiet because maybe they agree with C&C. Perhaps your outrage with it is a little outrageous?

Anonymous said...

As a WELS pastor, what I'm afraid of is printing my name on your blog and others, and then getting my reputation crucified on a public forum. I have heard the charges and insinuations of your blog and others; but when I talk to the men you have demonized, I realize they are Scriptural, orthodox teachers and preachers of the Word. They may feel there is nothing wrong with blended worship services--they may even utilize contemporary worship forms. They may even (gasp!) administer the Lord's Supper separate from the regular worship service. If you have ever lived outside the friendly confines of the Midwest, you know visitors can get very put out with the practice of closed communion. The early believers celebrated it privately among themselves. All of these things do not make them heterodox. These men have a love for the Word and a love for people, and they want to see their people in heaven someday. I have never attended a Church and Change conference, but there have been several presentations over the years I would have loved to sat in on. C and C offers a great deal when it comes to the nuts and bolts of practical every-day ministry. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! And no, I will not give you my name!

Anonymous said...

wels pastor,

you do not have to give me your name. i just thank God you are not MY pastor. some of the things you've written are just plain ridiculous. c'mon, i know that you know better. i'd like to think you were taught better than that but maybe you weren't. back in the day you could count on all wels pastors to be consistant in their beliefs. seems like those days are over. i'm glad i've got a good one.