I believe that it will take continuing vigilance to stem the tide of reformed theology that has seeped into the WELS. If you're a regular reader of this blog (and a few others) you know what I mean.
(Just Shout'in you never did respond to the WELS version of a Methodist worship service I outlined awhile back. Must have left you speechless.)
I'm heading on a trip overseas so BW will be on a hiatus until my return.
I would encourage you to continue your discussion on: www.bailingwater.com
Sunday, June 29, 2008
Saturday, June 28, 2008
Friday, June 27, 2008
Communion pre-service - then the Worship Gathering
Back from a business trip and I thought I would share a new trend in WELS communion practices. This "outreach" minded church has decided to have communion 2o minutes prior to the worship gathering. Members that want to take communion (offered twice a month) come 20 minutes prior to the service. Communion is offered and then a little fellowship and socializing break. Then the praise band starts to crank it up and the worship gathering (as it is called) begins minus communion and the liturgy.
I asked a member why communion was held prior to the worship "gathering." I was told that if you didn't feel prepared to take communion you wouldn't be embarrassed by having everyone see you not go up. He also noted that this way visitors that can't come up to communion, aren't embarrassed, and don't feel left out.
Hmmm.. the latest WELS communion trend. ?
I asked a member why communion was held prior to the worship "gathering." I was told that if you didn't feel prepared to take communion you wouldn't be embarrassed by having everyone see you not go up. He also noted that this way visitors that can't come up to communion, aren't embarrassed, and don't feel left out.
Hmmm.. the latest WELS communion trend. ?
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Other -- Are These Fellowships Really Being Made?
Bailing Water's appearance on wels.net
Are These Fellowships Really Being Made? The WELS responds:
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/
Are These Fellowships Really Being Made? The WELS responds:
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Comment on CEO ministries
A new comment from an older post: http://bailingwater.blogspot.com/2008/03/ceo-ministries.html
-
Imagine a ministry without the politics of dancing of trying to impress or please men with intellect or a degree of education.
Independent from tradition yet never forgeting it.
Spreading the Gospel message with zeal, spirtual fervor, boldness, excitment, enthusiasim, all while holding to the true teachings of the Bible.
One average working man who travels puts in 60 + hours a week, in addition to maintaining his wife and family. He Built a team of Pastor's lay-men, women, and teens, to act as mentors for guidance and leadrship yet remains compelled by God's Word to share with everyone he comes in contact with about the passion that Christ has for us.
There is not a self-seeking or self-promoting bone that CEO Ministries was founded on.
Established with love that Jesus has to offer the world. Cautious, and careful about the balance of Law and Gospel in all his presentations, he delivers a message that God prepared in advance for him speak. - God Bless
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Ministry - is it you?
From a Convention paper on the different forms? of ministry:
http://www.welsne.org/index.php?section=42
http://www.welsne.org/index.php?section=42
Monday, June 9, 2008
WELS blogs
Another addition -
http://www.welsincrisis.blogspot.com/
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Some have been concerned that I only offer one side of the confessional perspective. So I would like to invite those that have taken issue with me to please share the address of their blog. I will post your site so readers can see your perspective.
Also, here is a list of current WELS blogs I have found on the net (in no particular order):
http://shepherdstudy.wordpress.com/
http://lsiblog.blogspot.com/
http://angrylutherans.blogspot.com/
http://honoringtheministry.blogspot.com/
http://pastorrickjohnson.blogspot.com/
http://www.theruddats.com/
http://www.hislifefor.us/welsbrazil/
http://faithfullyfit.wordpress.com/
http://www.growingingracedaily.com/
http://randomintolerance.blogspot.com/
http://preachteachconfess.blogspot.com/
http://wels.net/wpmu/
http://welssermon.blogspot.com/
http://charis-eirene.blogspot.com/
http://theshepherdsvoice.blogspot.com/
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Please drop a note with your blog site address.
http://www.welsincrisis.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some have been concerned that I only offer one side of the confessional perspective. So I would like to invite those that have taken issue with me to please share the address of their blog. I will post your site so readers can see your perspective.
Also, here is a list of current WELS blogs I have found on the net (in no particular order):
http://shepherdstudy.wordpress.com/
http://lsiblog.blogspot.com/
http://angrylutherans.blogspot.com/
http://honoringtheministry.blogspot.com/
http://pastorrickjohnson.blogspot.com/
http://www.theruddats.com/
http://www.hislifefor.us/welsbrazil/
http://faithfullyfit.wordpress.com/
http://www.growingingracedaily.com/
http://randomintolerance.blogspot.com/
http://preachteachconfess.blogspot.com/
http://wels.net/wpmu/
http://welssermon.blogspot.com/
http://charis-eirene.blogspot.com/
http://theshepherdsvoice.blogspot.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please drop a note with your blog site address.
Saturday, June 7, 2008
Year of Jubilee
a question from a reader:
-----------I am curious said...
-----------I am curious said...
This comment does not belong in this thread, but has anyone heard anything about the "Year of Jubilee" the WELS is planning for this summer?
Someone said this has something to do with paying off the millions of dollars that was double spent a few years ago?
What's up with that?
Thursday, June 5, 2008
In Fellowship with the WELS
A poster noted in a comment that Crosswalk of Phoenix will be officially voted into fellowship with the WELS at next week's AZ/CA convention.
Who will take the district presidency of this district?
Let's take a look at who is in line next for full WELS fellowship...
http://www.churchfromscratch.net/links.htm
www.marshillchurch.org
- This "independent" congregation is currently served by a "WELS" pastor.
Who will take the district presidency of this district?
Let's take a look at who is in line next for full WELS fellowship...
http://www.churchfromscratch.net/links.htm
www.marshillchurch.org
Holding DPs accountable ? -- plus BW moves past 100 posts
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Anonymous said...
I actually think that this points to a larger issue of DPs not having any accountability.
I don't know anything about the DPs being mentioned and I really don't care to.
I do believe though that if we addressed the lack of accountability for the DPs--a lot of what is upsetting some people will be handled.
Everyone needs oversight no matter how high up they are in a denomination as we are all sinful human beings.
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Oh by the way, since this blog began after last year's convention we have passed the 100 post mark.
Anonymous said...
I actually think that this points to a larger issue of DPs not having any accountability.
I don't know anything about the DPs being mentioned and I really don't care to.
I do believe though that if we addressed the lack of accountability for the DPs--a lot of what is upsetting some people will be handled.
Everyone needs oversight no matter how high up they are in a denomination as we are all sinful human beings.
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Oh by the way, since this blog began after last year's convention we have passed the 100 post mark.
WELS worship
I thought I would bring up a discussion and the comments from a post below:
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The most recent WELS contemporary worship service I attended was more like an ole fashion Methodist revival than a confessional Lutheran church service. So that is what I mean by reigning in the liberal Methodist practices happening in the WELS. So I will flesh this out. First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name. The Sunday service began with a greeting by the robeless and tieless reverend who isn't addressed as pastor at all. Then he asked us to turn and greet our neighbor. Than the praise band leader took over and led the audience in a few pop songs. The first one being "Here I am to worship" and another couple of diddies about our great God (I think the melody was taken from a U2 song). The reverend than lead a Bible study type sermon that lasted about 30 minutes. The offering happened next, followed by some prayers. A contemporary version of Amazing grace was sung next. Then the blessing (hurray). One more pop song and the Methodist revival was done. I kid you not. Oh yea, there of course was a powerpoint with the lyrics and a small little kiddie church going on across the hallway since the kiddos can't read or see the powerpoint cause of the swaying adults (I kid you not). I thought the mrs in front of me was doing the electric slide. The service was held on a Sunday during the lenten season. But this church doesn't hold Wednesday evening lenten services (ie Methodist?).
John
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Thanks for fleshing things out. Let's just take one example of "Methodist" practice at a time. I believe that will better facilitate fruitful discussion.
"First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name."
Although the church I attend does have Lutheran in its name, is that really needed? Just because someone has "Lutheran" in his name doesn't mean that conveys "we are biblical and sacramental" to the car load driving past the sign. It may even convey the opposite if they have had any experience with an ELCA church. In a decidedly anti-denominational culture that is also biblically ignorant, I'm not thinking the church sign is doing too much good for anybody. WELS members will find your church from the net, yellow pages, or their old pastor's recommendation.
Seems to me it would be better to get them in the church so you can have them focus on what makes us Lutherans, the Means, not a sign out front. Am I to understand the church sign is a litmus test for your version of confessional Lutheranism? Personally I would opt for gaining an audience than broadcasting a label that most don't have a clue about.
Just shout'in
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John described the service, not just the sign. Could you respond to that also?
How about circus clowns and elephants to "gain an audience"?
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I will be happy to address elements and formats of the service but one concern at a time. What about the name "Lutheran" on the sign - a must to be considered confessional and biblical? I'm waiting for a reply on this topic before I move to the next.
Just shout'in
May 28, 2008 4:03 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The most recent WELS contemporary worship service I attended was more like an ole fashion Methodist revival than a confessional Lutheran church service. So that is what I mean by reigning in the liberal Methodist practices happening in the WELS. So I will flesh this out. First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name. The Sunday service began with a greeting by the robeless and tieless reverend who isn't addressed as pastor at all. Then he asked us to turn and greet our neighbor. Than the praise band leader took over and led the audience in a few pop songs. The first one being "Here I am to worship" and another couple of diddies about our great God (I think the melody was taken from a U2 song). The reverend than lead a Bible study type sermon that lasted about 30 minutes. The offering happened next, followed by some prayers. A contemporary version of Amazing grace was sung next. Then the blessing (hurray). One more pop song and the Methodist revival was done. I kid you not. Oh yea, there of course was a powerpoint with the lyrics and a small little kiddie church going on across the hallway since the kiddos can't read or see the powerpoint cause of the swaying adults (I kid you not). I thought the mrs in front of me was doing the electric slide. The service was held on a Sunday during the lenten season. But this church doesn't hold Wednesday evening lenten services (ie Methodist?).
John
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for fleshing things out. Let's just take one example of "Methodist" practice at a time. I believe that will better facilitate fruitful discussion.
"First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name."
Although the church I attend does have Lutheran in its name, is that really needed? Just because someone has "Lutheran" in his name doesn't mean that conveys "we are biblical and sacramental" to the car load driving past the sign. It may even convey the opposite if they have had any experience with an ELCA church. In a decidedly anti-denominational culture that is also biblically ignorant, I'm not thinking the church sign is doing too much good for anybody. WELS members will find your church from the net, yellow pages, or their old pastor's recommendation.
Seems to me it would be better to get them in the church so you can have them focus on what makes us Lutherans, the Means, not a sign out front. Am I to understand the church sign is a litmus test for your version of confessional Lutheranism? Personally I would opt for gaining an audience than broadcasting a label that most don't have a clue about.
Just shout'in
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John described the service, not just the sign. Could you respond to that also?
How about circus clowns and elephants to "gain an audience"?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be happy to address elements and formats of the service but one concern at a time. What about the name "Lutheran" on the sign - a must to be considered confessional and biblical? I'm waiting for a reply on this topic before I move to the next.
Just shout'in
May 28, 2008 4:03 PM
Wednesday, June 4, 2008
District conventions next week
http://together.wels.net/2008/6/2/district-conventions-next-week
The district conventions are set to be held next week.
"Aside from local elections, all districts will hear a preliminary report of the Ad Hoc Commission, which was established by the 2007 synod convention to analyze the synod's problems and potential and to recommend how to improve its ministry. District presidents will also be launching the Year of Jubilee, a special offering authorized by the 2007 synod convention to address the synod's capital debt of $22.4 million."
Both the Minnesota district and the Arizona California districts will be electing new presidents.
AZ/CA district
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It's interesting to note that after driving out an unprecedented number of pastors from his district Janke decided not to flee the carnage and will remain on the left coast. It will also be interesting to see if the cutting edge pastors (C&C) are elected to take over these prominent positions in synod.
The district conventions are set to be held next week.
"Aside from local elections, all districts will hear a preliminary report of the Ad Hoc Commission, which was established by the 2007 synod convention to analyze the synod's problems and potential and to recommend how to improve its ministry. District presidents will also be launching the Year of Jubilee, a special offering authorized by the 2007 synod convention to address the synod's capital debt of $22.4 million."
Both the Minnesota district and the Arizona California districts will be electing new presidents.
AZ/CA district
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's interesting to note that after driving out an unprecedented number of pastors from his district Janke decided not to flee the carnage and will remain on the left coast. It will also be interesting to see if the cutting edge pastors (C&C) are elected to take over these prominent positions in synod.
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John,
Below is the question I asked on the Q&A regarding this subject. The didn't post it publically (with only vague reasoning), but I though you might find it interesting.
**********
Dear****
We have answered your question on WELS Topical Q&A but decided not to post it to the system for others to view it. This may be on account of the topic being too private and sensitive, or perhaps this questioned has already been asked. Your question and our response follows.
You asked:
Who watches over the District President? I know that the District Presidents are to uphold doctrine and practice in their District--but who is holding them in account? They are, after all--sinful men who will sin (as all humans do). Is there a check and balance system? And if there is a check and balance system--is it objective? I think it would be safe to assume that men who have known each other for years may find it hard to be objective about their friends/brothers. I searched the WELS website and could not find a procedure on what to do when a District President sins against someone and refuses to acknowledge the person he injured. Any insight on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
This is our reply:
Ultimately, the members of the district which elected the district president "watch over" the district president through their election of the president every two years. In addition, if the district president is accused of wrong-doing, the district constitution says, "The two district vice presidents with the concurrence of the district circuit pastors may suspend the district president from his office. the president shall have 60 days thereafter to appeal the suspension. If there is no appeal within 60 days, the action shall be final, and the president shall be removed from office. If the president appeals, the appeal will be heard by the District Board of Appeals."
One would pray that when it comes to correct doctrine or practice, Christian friends or brothers can overlook personal relationships and do what is necessary to uphold the truth of God's Word.
June 19, 2008 9:37 AM