I thought I would bring up a discussion and the comments from a post below:
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The most recent WELS contemporary worship service I attended was more like an ole fashion Methodist revival than a confessional Lutheran church service. So that is what I mean by reigning in the liberal Methodist practices happening in the WELS. So I will flesh this out. First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name. The Sunday service began with a greeting by the robeless and tieless reverend who isn't addressed as pastor at all. Then he asked us to turn and greet our neighbor. Than the praise band leader took over and led the audience in a few pop songs. The first one being "Here I am to worship" and another couple of diddies about our great God (I think the melody was taken from a U2 song). The reverend than lead a Bible study type sermon that lasted about 30 minutes. The offering happened next, followed by some prayers. A contemporary version of Amazing grace was sung next. Then the blessing (hurray). One more pop song and the Methodist revival was done. I kid you not. Oh yea, there of course was a powerpoint with the lyrics and a small little kiddie church going on across the hallway since the kiddos can't read or see the powerpoint cause of the swaying adults (I kid you not). I thought the mrs in front of me was doing the electric slide. The service was held on a Sunday during the lenten season. But this church doesn't hold Wednesday evening lenten services (ie Methodist?).
John
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Thanks for fleshing things out. Let's just take one example of "Methodist" practice at a time. I believe that will better facilitate fruitful discussion.
"First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name."
Although the church I attend does have Lutheran in its name, is that really needed? Just because someone has "Lutheran" in his name doesn't mean that conveys "we are biblical and sacramental" to the car load driving past the sign. It may even convey the opposite if they have had any experience with an ELCA church. In a decidedly anti-denominational culture that is also biblically ignorant, I'm not thinking the church sign is doing too much good for anybody. WELS members will find your church from the net, yellow pages, or their old pastor's recommendation.
Seems to me it would be better to get them in the church so you can have them focus on what makes us Lutherans, the Means, not a sign out front. Am I to understand the church sign is a litmus test for your version of confessional Lutheranism? Personally I would opt for gaining an audience than broadcasting a label that most don't have a clue about.
Just shout'in
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John described the service, not just the sign. Could you respond to that also?
How about circus clowns and elephants to "gain an audience"?
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I will be happy to address elements and formats of the service but one concern at a time. What about the name "Lutheran" on the sign - a must to be considered confessional and biblical? I'm waiting for a reply on this topic before I move to the next.
Just shout'in
May 28, 2008 4:03 PM
8 comments:
Doesn't simple honesty compel a Lutheran church to keep "Lutheran" in the sign or name? It's a mystery to me why churches that claim to teach truth see nothing wrong with a little deception to get 'em in the door. Has anyone ever seen the major cults resort to such tactics? Nope. They may teach nonsense, but they stand behind it like men.
In most areas of the country, "lutheran" means something completely different than others. "lutheran" on an ELCA church- that is truly deceptive
Do you know anybody who travels around the city looking at the church sign to determine where they will worship? I don't. That might have happened in the 70s. Many today look on the web or if they are older in the yellow pages. My pastors continue to "stand like men" by being truly Lutheran in their use of the Means of Grace and unashamed proclamation of biblical truth. You intimate that failing to have "Lutheran" on their sign makes them less than men -- that is a clear . . . sign!
Just shout'in
Just shout'in,
You are very much correct about people using the web to find a church. The sad thing is that many WELS church web sites do not "stand like men" and proclaim the use of the Means of Grace and law and gospel.
Too often, they go something like this: "is church boring to you, come to our casual church, grab a cup of coffee on the way in and meet lots of friends."
perplexed
I'm not aware of any WELS churches like this but then again I haven't seen every website.
Just shout'in
Just shout'in,
How bout this one
crosswalkphoenix
This congregation is currently an "independent" congregation served by a "WELS" pastor. At next week's AZ/CA convention they will officially become a full member of the WELS. - Welcome to the fellowship.
Silly Anonymous,
The words "church", "Christian," "holy" "crosswalk," you name it, have been corrupted by someone. Hey, Jim Jones' church was called "The People's Church." Who knows, they probably had a "People's Bible." So your argument about the misuse of the name "Lutheran" falls flat.
Captain Kangaroo
Just Shouting,
Next.
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