Friday, April 3, 2009

Rule Breakers

In a blog post below I mention how Rev. Jeske is promoting a Lutheranism that is encouraging leaders to be "Rule Breakers." A recent Jeske presentation was posted on Ichabod. In this presentation Jeske quotes the idea of breaking rules from a reformed author. Listen carefully to all of Jeske's words about Germanizing and Lutheranizing. The premise being promoted is that anything goes in worship.

Below is an editorial comment from Freddy Finkelstein about Jeske's friend Ski....

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He's (Jeske) not the only one on record saying this, of course. I recently visited Ski's Drive '08 blog, and on his Day_5 entry, he has some very telling comments regarding "Rule Breakers," and the influence they ought to have in directing ministry.

Here's the link: http://web.me.com/pastorski/Site/Day_5.html


The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal. We began with awesome worship. Today though, they began with a Christian rapper, Toby Mac. Our school kids would have loved it. I’m not sure that they would have believed that it was church though.

When Andy began his session. He started by saying that he was not going to follow his notes in the Drive ’08 Journal Book. Instead he was going to do something that he called, “Recent Random Thoughts On Church Leadership.” He shared 5 points and 5 takeaways. I think that he was at his absolute best this afternoon. Here are the 5 point & takeaways:

  1. To reach people no one else is reaching we must do things no one else is doing. (Question: "What is the measure of 'reaching people not yet reached?'" Numeric Growth in the church? Numeric growth from among the unchurched? Who's to say that they haven't already been reached with the Gospel, and that the Holy Spirit hasn't been doing His work all along?" Stanley's first point, here, unquestionably arrogates credit for the Holy Spirit's work to Man and his efforts.)

Takeaway - Become preoccupied with those you haven’t reached as opposed to those you keep. This is easier said than done. (Church Growthers are not concerned with back-door losses -- just perpetual growth. It is part of the program. Those who stay for awhile and contribute, but later leave, are nothing but throw-away "scaffolding" anyway, according to Church Growth theories.)

Wow, it seems so simple. And yet so hard.

  1. The next generation product almost never comes from the previous generation. (In other words, every new generation re-invents itself, makes its own mistakes, learns from them etc. In response to this, the single word "catholicity" comes to mind -- a word which a Church Growth sectarian like Andy Stanley would never think to utter or contemplate. The New Testament Church has made mistakes and learned from them for 2000 years. What has been handed down to us in terms of public practice is the result of trial and error over this entire period. Human nature has not changed over this period, making such wisdom entirely "relevant," especially given that it is primarily the nature common to all men to which the Church must address itself -- not man's culture, whimsical and fleeting as it is.)

Takeaway - Be a student not a critic.

What more can be said? How do we approach things? When things are different & involve change are we scared? Do we criticize or do we look to learn and implement? (What? Critical reception of change is necessary, especially among those publicly confessing catholicity and orthodoxy -- doubly so among those who consider themselves to be Berean!)

  1. What do I believe is impossible to do in my field? But if it could be done it would fundamentally change my business. (Everything we are in Christ is impossible for man to accomplish -- this is the fundamental truth of our "business." Nothing we do can change this fact. The making of a Christian is a miracle from start to finish. It is the Holy Spirit's work, not ours. We employ His Means, according to the command of Christ, and the Holy Spirit does the rest.)

Takeaway - Pay attention to the people who are breaking the rules. (What rules? The "rules" of public practice handed to us in the Western Rite and embraced in the Confessions? The few strictures of public practice placed on us by the Scriptures? The voluntary and brotherly "setting aside of personal preferences" in favor of unity in practice? As if there isn't great enough freedom within these boundaries, now we are to regard them as "rules which need to be broken." The entire Church is called to a mind of adolescence by such statements, called to regard "The System" with disdainful suspicion, and to cast aside the sound wisdom of our fathers. Indeed, Church Growthers make a joke out if it -- "It's not your father's church, anymore!" But we are called upon in the Scriptures to exercise sound wisdom in our freedom. Catholicity offers such wisdom as it has been gathered over two millenia. Will the "unhistorical spirit of our times" cause us to disparage and forget such wisdom? Looks like it...)

Crazy sounding isn’t it? We can fight technology and change, but in the end it will pass us and we will become archaic and irrelevant. Not our Message, but the manner in which we present it. Who would have ever thought texting would be as big as it is? How about multi-site church? Video church? These are all things that have changed how we worship. (The use of "new technology" is not "breaking rules" of any sort. There is, however, great wisdom in exercising caution in our use of it, as certain usages may well carry us outside of acceptable practice. It is also unwise to invest in fads, but only in those aspects of "new technology" which are going to remain a fixture.)

  1. If we got kicked out & the board brought in a new CEO what would they do? Why shouldn’t we walk out the door & then come back in & do it ourselves?

Takeaway - Acknowledge what is NOT working & own up to why you are unwilling to change it. (Again, what is the "measure of what is working?" Numbers? If a given congregation doesn't have what "central command" defines as "positive stats," then the Holy Spirit is not working? Hogwash.)

Some thoughts on this - rarely does the church (in general) get concerned about change until they run out of money. What if we asked some questions before it was too late? (As in, "Why are we spending so much money on needless changes?")

  • What’s in decline? (According to whose standards of decline? Why is all decline considered to be evidence of something wrong? At one point, as a result of hard teaching no less, almost all the disciples abandoned Jesus until only the original 12 were left. What a failure He turned out to be...)

  • Where are we manufacturing energy? In other words pretending something is important. An example would be if I continued to say that Bible Study was important, but never attended. I’m blowing hot air, “manufacturing energy.” I don’t believe that anyone wants to stand behind that or get involved in something like that.

  • Finally, when are we going to unearth all underlying assumptions? Sometimes, what we assume, is not the reality. Are we willing to dig to find out the truth or are we happy with assuming. ("Underlying assumptions," as in, "If my stats aren't 'good' then the Holy Spirit isn't working, and it's all my fault?")

  1. When your memories exceed your dreams the end is near.

Takeaway - Don’t let success or momentum overshadow your vision. Keep the out front. (Again, what is success, and how does one know he has momentum? Given that it is "your vision" against which these are compared, I would assume measures of success and momentum are rooted in some aspect of man.)

How quickly can we be satisfied? How often do we look at things and say, “Well, it’s not great but it is better than such and such church.” Scary, but we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking like this. Some questions to ponder:

  • What the burden on your heart?

  • What breaks your heart?

(I stated above, "...rooted in some aspect of man." Yup. Look to yourself and into your own heart.)

That was it. After that Andy just ended and prayed for all the people there & for there ministries. As you can see from the pictures above, Buske & I got to get a picture with Andy, pretty cool. He is way down to earth. His wife Sandra was there also and she is just great. We actually got to talk to her a little more than Andy. You also notice John with the North Point member who played Bender in one of their sermon series called “Twisted”. The series was all about how Satan twists God’s Word. Finally, there is a photo of Buske & Todd Fields.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

The personal vision thing is very important. Quoting Twitter from Ski: "Thanks - We have great people around us encouraging and helping us in our vision.
about 24 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to BigPhatPastor."

Bespoke

Anonymous said...

I read a Lutheran pastor's post on a different blog last week who said that the greatest way to grow the church is through unprotected sex of married couples. That must be laughable in this line of thought. Like the sheep in the fold are in no need of care.

It's like a game plan and the one with the most wins. "Then we just get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit do his (or maybe its) thing..." I believe there are many with the best intentions, but there must certainly be some who know exactly that what they are doing is very wrong. The money changers need to be thrown out.

Rob

Anonymous said...

I appreciate everything Pastors Jeske and Ski do to reach out to all people, especially those who feel more comfortable worshipping in a less traditional manner.

I truly feel a greater excitement for my faith when I worship at services in the manner of St. Marcus'. I better show my love to God and the joy I feel for the salvation he gives me.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Jeske made me so excited about non-traditional worship that I left Lutheranism to join Granger Community Church. Like wow! I see a lot of WELS pastors visiting there too.

Enthused.

Anonymous said...

>>>I appreciate everything Pastors Jeske and Ski do to reach out to all people, especially those who feel more comfortable worshipping in a less traditional manner.<<<

Worship is NOT about being comfortable. I have no clue where people get that idea. Coming into the presence of a powerful and transcendent God to hear the proclamation of the mighty deeds he has done for us will never quite be "comfortable". It will be breath-taking and magnificent and joyous and wonderful, but definitely not comfortable. Valuing worship that's comfortable is a sign that you care more about yourself than you do about God, and is a sin.

>>>I truly feel a greater excitement for my faith when I worship at services in the manner of St. Marcus'.<<<

This is sheer enthusiasm, against which Lutheran warned. Faith is not created nor does it grow through excitement. In fact, emotion all too often seeks to supplant or destroy faith. The true source of joy is the gospel, not a worship style. If one must depend on a worship style to find joy, then that worship style has supplanted the gospel. Again, this is a dangerous and deadly sin.

>>>I better show my love to God and the joy I feel for the salvation he gives me.<<<

This sentence demonstrates contemporary worship's focus on the law. Worship becomes about me doing things for God, showing my love for others, etc. Worship should not center in the law, but in the gospel. The gospel then will naturally produce joy in serving God and others. But the point of worship is most certainly not to manipulate us into the right emotional mindset in order to get us to do good works.

Everyone should read carefully what this person has written, carefully consider its implications, and see the subtle change in emphasis that occurs when one uses contemporary worship. This is why we can't use contemporary worship, it was designed by Enthusiasts to carry out the goal of Enthusiasm. That's what it's going to do every time, whether you claim to have "Lutheranized" it or not.

Anonymous said...

A new blog for y'all to take a look at:
http://churchmusicreview.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Sorry you completely misunderstood my comments. Let me correct you, as I resent the fact that you feel you know what I care about.

Comfortable is perhaps the wrong word for my meaning. I certainly don't go to church to "feel" comfortable. God created each of us different and each of us responds to things differently than others. For example, some children learn better by rote repetition, others by hands on interaction. Yet, hopefully they all graduate from school having learned the same thing and to say one way of learning is right or wrong would certainly be erroneous.

The same can be said for the way we worship. The Holy Spirit edifies some people through traditional style worship as we Lutherans learned long ago. The Holy Spirit edifies others through contemporary Lutheran services that some of our congregations practice today. Yet, in either style of worship it is possible to study the same Gospel and worship the same God.

Secondly, please read my sentence again. "I truly feel a greater excitement for my faith when I worship at services in the manner of St. Marcus'.

I did not say my faith grows through excitement. I said I feel a greater excitement for my faith. There's a difference. The Holy Spirit gave me this faith and out of love I feel great excitement for it! It's awesome! Furthermore, God gave us emotions. There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing emotional joy because I'm saved. One does not have to feel they've been "manipulated into doing good works" if they do feel emotion (wherever did you get that from what I said, anyway?)

Luther's order of service is just that - an order that he established and the order that we Lutherans chose to follow. It's a beautiful service. But nowhere has God said this is the only way we can worship him.

You need to take heed of your own instruction to read and write carefully. Everything you've said can be applied to the very service you insist upon.
If one must depend on Luther's order of service to worship, then this traditional style has supplanted the gospel.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 234

Thanks for posting your thoughts in the manner that you did. It's been what I have been trying to say for the last 5 months around these parts.

JK

Anonymous said...

>>>The Holy Spirit edifies some people through traditional style worship as we Lutherans learned long ago. The Holy Spirit edifies others through contemporary Lutheran services that some of our congregations practice today.<<<

No. Here's where you completely miss the point. The Holy Spirit doesn't edify anyone through worship per se. He edifies through the Word and Sacraments which are present (hoepfully) in worship. Thus the quality of a worship service is determined only by one thing: the presence (or lack thereof) of Word and Sacraments.

The liturgy is so valuable and has been used non-stop for 2000 years specifically because the Word and Sacraments completely permeate every second of it.

Contemporary worship is so dangerous because it was designed by those who downplay the Word and Sacraments in their doctrine and practice.

You're coming at the entire question of worship in completely the wrong way. Instead of asking, "What works for ME, what provokes the correct response in ME", the proper question is, "What proclaims the Word and Sacraments in the most thorough way?" Your approach is completely anthropocentric (focused on me and what I want). The correct approach to worship is completely Christocentric.

>>>Furthermore, God gave us emotions. There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing emotional joy because I'm saved.<<<

Of course not. But contemporary worship is designed to manipulate emotion using pop culture, not to engender emotion using the Gospel. This is a huge difference. If you don't believe me that contemporary worship is designed to manipulate emotion, then read what modern Evangelicals have to say about worship. You'll see that they are very blunt about stating that worship must be used to manipulate people into certain emotional mindsets.

>>>Luther's order of service is just that - an order that he established and the order that we Lutherans chose to follow. It's a beautiful service. But nowhere has God said this is the only way we can worship him.<<<

You demonstrate your ignorance of liturgical worship by saying this. Luther did not invent the liturgy. We don't use the liturgy because Luther invented it. The liturgy had been in existence for 1500 years before Luther. We maintain the liturgy for the same reason that Luther did: because of how thoroughly and clearly it proclaims the gospel.

Anonymous said...

John, As a suggestion for a topic, I would be interested in opinions on the recent WELS Ad Hoc Commission study (available from this page: http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2601&collectionID=1743). I would hope that commenters would read and consider its recommendations before commenting. Thank you very much! (I respectfully offer this suggestion - I certainly don't mean to tell you what to do on your own blog. I just thought you & others who read & post here might be interested in it also.)
- A Virginia Mom

Anonymous said...

I would like to see a thread/discussion on what everyone thinks is being a true Confessional Lutheran Church. Because if you read the BOC, there are inconsistencies contained in it and there are inconsistencies in application by churches.

JK

Anonymous said...

As far as the "Rule Breakers" thing goes, I have noticed what I would call a "spirit of distain and rebellion" among some WELS pastors and laity in the last 18 years or so.

I have kept mental notes of many comments like one from a pastor who said, "I realized one day that I had missed the 60's!" Poor guy, guess he missed all the other stuff that ruined the lives of so many others and bred a generation of misguided liberalism. There certainly is much of the 60's attitude that he expresses in his new found methods, albeit in a much less hippy sort of way. Some in WELS seem to be angry at their "institutionalized upbringing" and rigid catechesis. It's like they have been damaged and can't recover. Too bad I think, having come to WELS without this terrible past to deal with.

Having seen first hand the other side of what I will call the Enthusiast Protestant Church, (now trying to be copied by Lutherans who should know better) I will tell you that they have nothing to offer in comparison to Confessional Lutheran teaching (if it still exists). Having said that, I know that no one is really going to heed my personal tidbit. The grass is greener and we can "take what is good and leave the bad." Hmmmm...really? Having heard that and seen the resulting fruit, that is just plain wishful thinking. Lutherans worship the way they do because of what they believe. Enthusiasts worship they way they do because of what they believe.

The Church, like anything else will tend toward a state of disorder and decay. The ONLY thing that will keep it alive is the WORD and Sacraments and the Holy Spirit who works thru them, Not church marketing, not new "methods", not "Lutheranized Church Growth" tactics and certainly not pop music, that operates in the emotional sphere, or anything else that the emerging church and its gurus have invented that bave seduced and beguiled so many in Lutheranism today.

Whatch out, because the end is nearer still than before and what we see now is evidence of it.

Peace to all who quietly go about their work in Christ.

Eyes wide open.

TIMiAM said...

"This is why we can't use contemporary worship, it was designed by Enthusiasts to carry out the goal of Enthusiasm."

Agreed; yet I'll see your Enthusiasm and raise you Satanism. Anyone who is not capable of identifying the SATANIC roots present in contemporary musical forms is either too engrossed in the culture to notice or is willingly turning a deaf ear.

The former was the case in my personal experience. I always despised my parents for taking away my tapes/CDs for what they saw as inappropriate lyrics and for what I saw as their lameness. I always assured myself (and my parents)that I was capable of listening with a critical ear.

The documentary "They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll" changed my perspective entirely. Please search for this "Rockumentary" on Youtube. The full version is 10 HOURS long, which is a testament to the extent that pop/rock has been infected by satan.

I implore anyone with children, anyone who listens to and enjoys pop/rock music, and particularly those individuals who want to see more "contemporary" music in worship to watch this documentary.

If this doesn't challenge the way you think about what forms of music are appropriate for worship, then it will at least (hopefully) challenge what you download onto your ipod and what you are programming into your brain.

Anonymous said...

I liked Jeske so much he inspired me to become Baptist.

Anonymous said...

I liked TimIAm so much he inspired me to burn a witch.

Anonymous said...

Oops -- not a witch. Trick or Treater. My bad!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 901 said:

"The Church, like anything else will tend toward a state of disorder and decay. The ONLY thing that will keep it alive is the WORD and Sacraments and the Holy Spirit who works thru them, Not church marketing, not new "methods", not "Lutheranized Church Growth" tactics and certainly not pop music, that operates in the emotional sphere"

Does this mean that we should get rid of all "traditional" church music that stirs the emotions? Shall we get rid of all Christian art or anything else that might carry an emotional appeal? Perhaps we should get rid of all printed books and Bibe study materials because they were produced using a "method" that was once "new" (a printing press). Should we get rid of all signage which could be construed as marketing? Your logic is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

"The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

Jesus

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anonymous April 5, 2009 12:21 PM. I have personally witnessed "Contemporary Worship" and its mindset wreak havok on the Northern Illinois District (NID) of the LCMS. I appreciate the goal behind Ablaze!, to reach out to a great many people with the Good News of Jesus Christ, but they won't be happy until their congregations look very similar to the Assemblies of God. Here they came out with a nice new hymnal, Lutheran Service Book (LSB), which does a great job sitting in the pew racks collecting dust while people repeat monotanous lyrics over and over that they read from a movie screen above the altar. I played guitar for one of these churches until I realized I was not serving God by taking part in this feelings-centered "worship." I decided that I would not and could not be part of the problem. If the WELS decides to abandon the liturgy for rock concerts, where shall I go? There is no CLC church in the area. Oh, that Lutheranism would wake up and realize there is a reason why we aren't like Willow Creek & Co. or the televangelists that have traded theology in for pop psychology and political correctness. May God protect His church from the gates of hell. The heat is getting hotter. Maranatha, come Lord Jesus!!!