Massive budget slashing occurred last weekend. One has to wonder if all the grants to the Rock and Roll missions will be cut.
http://together.wels.net/2009/4/28
The Synodical Council (SC) met last Friday and Saturday to adopt a proposed budget that will be recommended to the synod convention in July.
President Schroeder
The WELS constitution requires the SC to submit a budget proposal that is balanced and in line with the anticipated financial support from all sources. A budget that would call for spending greater than anticipated support is not an option. The projected support for the next two years made it necessary for the SC to reduce the synod's ministry program by more than $8 million (from $38.4 million to just under $30 million). As it considered this situation, the SC was very much aware of the painful and difficult choices confronting us. It was clear that significant budgetary reductions in all areas of ministry will be necessary. Recognizing that, the SC made every effort to find ways to limit the size and scope of the reductions that will need to be made.
Some of these reductions will involve the loss of called and hired positions in our mission fields, at our schools, and at the Synod Administration Building. Since the boards and groups that oversee these ministries will be responsible for communicating with the called workers, congregations, and mission fields that will potentially be affected, the budget information in this communication is in summary form only; details will be released in the coming weeks. This will give those responsible the time to speak personally to those that will be affected. Complete financial information will be included in the Book of Reports and Memorials and will also be posted online.
239 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 239 of 239Anon 10:33 pm, thank you so much for stating what you believe, esp. with regard to Pastor Sims.
For years, when there is a shortage of calls for MLC teacher graduates and almost shortages for WLS pastor graduates, the profs and leaders of WELS have been saying, "The synod doesn't owe anyone a call." Will the profs and leaders continue to lovingly embrace that position when the WELS has no calls for them?
Also, in the May 18 WELS call list, the first wave of cuts were all home and world missionaries. There was not one from worker training or administration. One can only assume that worker training and administration cannot think, in advance of the convention, even one place where they can save money. Also, it would seem most fair that a uniform date, after the convention, would be a better way to make the synodwide cuts. This would give every displaced worker an equal chance at the calls that are available. Also, one is con-cerned that the call list will be loaded with displaced or potentially displace called workers. While this is understandable, one hopes the other qualified pastors are not overlooked in these difficult times. The concern is that we do not stress the human side of the divine call to the point of down-playing the divine side of the call. Practicality dare never trump theology.
>>>We all are free to follow our conscience as it is aligned with our belief system.<<<
Our consciences, tainted by sin, lie to us all the time. Thus, living life is not merely a matter of following conscience. Living a God-pleasing life means following God's perfect Word, not our own faulty consciences.
>>>The difference between what you've been saying and what I just said, is your belief system is "right," and mine is "in error." This is precisely what I have been trying to say, that somehow what you (WELS) believes and preaches is somehow better than what other religions teach.<<<
Of course what the WELS teaches is better than what other religions teach! God's Word is the judge of what's a good religion and what's a bad one. Other religions have wandered from the truth of God's Word, and thus are bad. Confessional Lutheranism abides by the truth of God's Word, and thus is good. Of course, you have a hard time seeing this since you are a post-modernist who rejects God's Word as absolute truth. Once you do that, then any religion is just as good as another.
>>>To bring in another example I've been stressing throughout, you'd think if your religion was the "correct" one, that it would show more in numbers, rather than being a mere <.3% of all believers in the US.<<<
This is utter foolishness. Numbers prove absolutely nothing. You'd think that if Jesus Christ was right, he would have had a huge, worldwide following. And yet, during the most crucial hours of his ministry, he had zero followers. Zero. They all deserted him. Jesus must have been a false prophet then, right? Throughout the history of the world, the true Church of God has always been a tiny minority, and unbelief has always had the overwhelming majority.
>>>I'm sorry that you feel that I've been confusing and not following through on the Confessions arguments. I want YOU to go to the Confessions and find for me where your faith is founded, but since you are unwilling to do that, enough is enough.<<<
I'm sorry, but this statement is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read. You want us to show in the Confessions where our faith is founded? Try every page. What exactly are you asking for? It's completely idiotic for you to claim that the Confessions are in error and in need of change and then to say, "Well, I'm not gonna point to any specific things that are in error. Why don't you do that for me?" You claim to be a law student (though I seriously doubt you could ever make it through law school with such shoddy skills in logic and argumentation). What you're doing is akin to a prosecutor making a charge against someone and then saying, "I know that you killed this person, but I'm not going to provide any evidence of it. I want you to examine your life and show the jury yourself that you did it." That's complete stupidity. If you make a charge, you're the one who has to provide evidence. And yet, you're either too lazy or too uninformed to provide a scrap of evidence to back up your accusation. Either that, or you realize that you made a false charge and are trying to get out of it.
>>>I may not be the wisest of all creatures and Lord knows I'm still growing and learning, but I can tell you that I do fear the Lord.<<<
If you truly feared the Lord, you wouldn't be so quick to discard his inspired Word for your own secular wisdom. God takes his Word seriously. He doesn't trifle with those who add or subtract things from it (read the last chapter of Revelation). Someday that will become crystal clear to you--hopefully before it's too later and not after.
Lemkeel,
You must feel there are no absolutes. That is what Erasums believed against Luther. I think there are absolutes. Pedophilia is wrong. You may disagree, NAMBLA might disagree, but it is wrong. For you everything is "mush, mush" as Luther liked to say about your kind.
Rather than stomping your foot and accusing people of thinking they are always right and others are wrong, why don't you actually try to illustrate that.
You must have failed logic at LPS, or worse this is the kind of logic they teach.
Rango
PS Dango, bowling tonight?
Lemkeel, you must need some more education. You are not doing a very good job of relating to those of us who are different (those of us who take God's Word and the Confessions seriously). Personally, I wonder why you bother writing or speaking anything to anyone - since we are all different and will understand the same thing in different ways.
No one has painted you into a post-modernist corner. You stand there with your own two feet. (I however thought you took that label as a compliment since it is connected to critical thinking.)
Rango,
Bango! I'm there. (Gotta bring the wife though.)
Dango
>>>Personally, I wonder why you bother writing or speaking anything to anyone - since we are all different and will understand the same thing in different ways.<<<
Heh, this is the question I've always wanted to ask a post-modernist. If they are correct and there is no truth and everything that is said or written can be interpreted any number of ways with completely different and contradictory meanings, then why in the world do they bother speaking or writing in defense of post-modern ideals? The fact that they speak and write, attempting to convey specific ideas, completely contradicts the basis of their entire argument. It's just laughable that they spout such utter and obvious foolishness while thinking themselves to be so wise.
Anon 7:02 am, thanks for your thoughts. You make good points - the Lutheran Confessions are nothing to be "sniffed at nor dismissed"; I have not suggested the entire thing be revised, and if I did, I apologize for that misunderstanding.
If you think that I don't know the "truth," as I've been stating earlier, what is that "truth" that you speak of? If you assume that I am seeking wisdom and knowledge from things of this world and not from God, that is an assumption. You seem to indicate that the Lutheran Confessions are at par with the Bible. How is that?
AKA, was wondering where you went. If you firmly believe that what the WELS "believes and preaches is somehow better than what other religions teach" then congrats to you, you are a believer that has a strong faith. Good for you. At the same time, listening to you tell me that if I believe that other religions are on par with what WELS teaches that I need to repent cause I'm not a Christian, I would say I'm sorry for you, and I pray to God for you. First of all, you're assuming that I believe that other religions are on par with WELS, and your illogical conclusion that because I may think that makes me unchristian and I need to repent is again where I would say I will pray for you.
Why are you busy shaming people? If I were you, I'd be focused on you, and your attempts to correct me for my erring ways. As Jesus put it in Matthew 7:1-5, I'd be busy with yourself right now and focus less on what others are doing. If you'd like to do what N'go suggests and say that you must judge, I'd then like to ask, in what reference was Jesus talking about when he tells us to "not judge?" With regard to the false doctrine argument, here I go again, how do you know that you're teaching the "right doctrine" and that others are teaching "false doctrine?" If you want to avoid me go ahead, afterall it'd make my life easier. But telling someone else what to do is, well, to put it in your words, shameful. If what you're trying to tell all other readers on this blog to do would really be aligned with scripture, then how would you explain "free will?"
Talking to you AKA is like talking to a brick wall. No matter what I say, it bounces back at me or up over the wall and past it. I've tried (as evident on this blog) to put forth examples and reasons why I say what I say. You have chosen to blatantly ignore me and shun others for even reading what I have to say. It is people like you that I pray for at night when I say, "Lord, please help those who are stubborn and recalcitrant and who fail to see things from others' perspectives and world views. Please help them realize that they are actually doing more harm than good." Until you start to show even a glimpse that you can begin to see things from others' perspectives and world views, it is a waste of time and energy to discuss with you cause, as I've stated to a couple others, there's no sense in going back and forth. For now, please be respectful and let's agree to disagree. I'm willing to revisit this in the future, however.
N'go 8:59 am, since you two are brothers with rhyming names, sorry if I've given you the same nicknames. As I said to your brother, N'go, I will pray for you.
Anon 9:04 am, I will pray for you.
>>>If you think that I don't know the "truth," as I've been stating earlier, what is that "truth" that you speak of?<<<
You sound like Pontius Pilate. That's not a good thing. The truth is nothing other than the Word of God--every page, every word, every letter, every jot and tittle, every historical detail, every scientific detail, everything. That's what truth is.
>>>If you assume that I am seeking wisdom and knowledge from things of this world and not from God, that is an assumption.<<<
An assumption, maybe, but an assumption based on all of the things you have said. When you suggest that Christians should learn from the methods of non-Christians, when you suggest that pastors should become secular psychologists, when you claim that Christians ought to be open to the viewpoints of the world, when you ridicule your Christians education and laud your secular education, when you value numerical success over spiritual faithfulness, then it's a pretty safe assumption that you have traded the wisdom of God for the "wisdom" of this world.
>>>You seem to indicate that the Lutheran Confessions are at par with the Bible. How is that?<<<
Both Scripture and the Confessions are norms of the Lutheran church. Scripture is the norming norm and the Confessions are the normed norm. (Surely you were taught this at prep school?) Thus, both Scripture and the Confessions are norms and authorities in the Lutheran church. To say otherwise is to put yourself outside of the Confessional Lutheran church.
N'go 9:19 am, why google Pastor Sims when you can search for him on the WELS website? Do a "WELS locator" search, for Tempe, AZ, click on "Emmanuel" church, then click on "meet our pastors" and you'll find him there. Here's a copy/paste of what's written by his picture for those who don't want to do that:
Pastor Snowden G. Sims
"God has told us to equip the saints, so that they can continue to build up the body of Christ."
Pastor Snowden (Gene) Sims has served Emmanuel since 1998. He is the campus pastor for the Phoenix Area Campus Ministry (PACM), and he serves as youth pastor at Emmanuel. He serves the Arizona-California District of the WELS as Second Vice President. Pastor Sims is a 1985 graduate of Northwestern College. He holds a Master of Divinity from Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary. In his spare time Pastor Sims enjoys fishing, working out, listening to jazz, and playing guitar. He and his wife, Melinda, enjoy spending time with their daughter."
As stated earlier, he recently, as in a month or two ago, took a call to a mission congregation in Ohio.
N'go, go ahead and make your judgments, the one I'm most concerned about is God's. I will pray for you.
Anon 12:10 pm, with regard to your statement "Living a God-pleasing life means following God's perfect Word, not our own faulty consciences," please share with me how it is that you are able to follow God's perfect word? I'm dying to know.
As I said to AKA, that's great that you have a firm faith behind the WELS beliefs and teachings. Responding to this paragraph is so easy, again, you're trying to say I'm post-modernist, go ahead, whatever that means. As far as knowing that your religious teachings and beliefs are abiding by the "truth of God's word" that's awesome! By golly share that good news with others! Doing so might bring in more money through offerings. Lord knows the WELS is in desperate need of $$.
The statistics of WELS being <.3 % of all believers in the US is not foolishness, what you are saying is though, which is why I'll pray for you tonight (gees I'm not gonna sleep tonight). You say numbers prove absolutely nothing? Strong words! How much do you make a year? How many kids do you have? How well are you able to support those kids with your (and your wife's if she works, assuming you're a man) salary? How many cars do you own? How much money do you put forth for gas each week? Why is it that the WELS is on life-support and needs $$ bad? Hmm, if as you say numbers mean absolutely nothing, is that why no one is giving much in offerings in WELS and why they don't know how to run a statistical cost/benefit analysis? Then of course, you are right! Numbers mean absolutely nothing. Keep propagating this belief and I predict I'll see the demise of WELS in my lifetime. Btw, I'm not buying your belief that only <.3% of all believers in US are going to heaven when they die, and thus are true followers of Christ. I'd have to get pretty hammered to believe that nonsense.
That's funny that you think the Lutheran Confessions statement about searching them is the stupidest thing I've said. I will pray for you. I'm not a law student, and quite contrary to what you've said, my logic is a strength of mine, go ahead, call me idiotic and stupid and illogical, it's okay cause I'm praying for you. I'm not lazy nor making a false charge that I'm trying to take back. Go ahead and keep assuming though.
I'm not going to discuss your wisdom rant. All I'll say is, I pray for you.
N'go, honestly, I'm trying hard to contain myself right now. Luther? I don't spend my time studying Martin Luther. I'm one of those, progressive, forward thinkers that you apparently damn.
Actually, LPS didn't have a logic course. In fact, I don't think logic courses are offered until college. In my public university, logic is taught in the Philosophy Department.
As far as your accusation that I'm illogical, funny, I've been told opposite from professors, teachers, friends, family, co-workers, and employers. Also, the GRE writing assessment would indicate otherwise. You might ask how that's scored, right? Scorers are taught how to score the essays, then, two independent scorers read each essay assigning a score from 1-6, as well as half increments. The two scores from the independent judges are then averaged, and brought up a .5 increment to cover for potential error. You may not agree with what I have to say, but just cause you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I'm making illogical statements. According to the GRE writing assessment, I'm making "insightful, in-depth analysis of complex ideas; develops and supports main points with logically compelling reasons and/or highly persuasive examples; is well focused and well organized; skillfully uses sentence variety and
precise vocabulary to convey meaning effectively; demonstrates superior facility with sentence structure and language usage but may have minor errors that do not interfere with meaning."
I don't mean to bring in a test score from graduate admissions, but since you're calling me illogical and trashing Pastor Sims, I decided this was the right thing to do. And oh yeah, I'll pray for you tonight.
Anon 2:44 pm, thanks for noticing that I need more education. I, like all people, sin daily and am never in a place where I'm perfect and don't need to move. But, if you are, like you're insinuating, please do tell how you got to that place? I'm not doing a good job of relating to you guys (take God's word and Confessions seriously) cause every time I say something you don't like (i.e., contrary to God's word) you try to slam me and well, when insults are being thrown around, tell me how you in your everyday interactions go about "relating" to those with whom you're "fighting" with cause until people calm down and start to accept things, there's little to no chance of "relating to those who are different." Does that make sense? Are you an older person in your 40-50s? If so, how have you handled conflict at your job?
As far as not "writing or speaking anything to anyone - since we are all different and will understand the same thing in different ways," as I've stated earlier, I don't believe in fatalism. I believe that we all have agency/free will and should use it as it fits with our conscience and as long as we don't hurt or harm others. Just because people are all different and will understand the same thing in different ways doesn't mean we should give up and lay on in the middle of the road waiting to be smashed by a truck. When I state that, I'm talking more about perspective and world views, not "inaction" which is what you're referring to. Ever heard of advocacy? Probably not, it's one of those "secular" words and thus God would surely disapprove.
What, with all due respect, are you referring to when you state "No one has painted you into a post-modernist corner. You stand there with your own two feet. (I however thought you took that label as a compliment since it is connected to critical thinking.)" Anon @ 12:10 said "Of course, you have a hard time seeing this since you are a post-modernist who rejects God's Word as absolute truth." I never even heard of this word "post-modernism" until you guys. You can call me whatever you want and riddle me with your judgments. As I've been stating, only one person can truly judge, and I trust his judgment. I will, however, pray for you. If you want to try to put me down cause I refer to critical thinking, go ahead. I'm praying for you.
N'go 3:10, glad you have each other (and your wives), cause honestly I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone who would willingly go bowling with you guys. Viel spass!
Anon 4:42, please see other comments above. I have no comment for you at this time. I will, however, pray for you.
10 out of the last 11 posts from Lemke-el. Not manic depressive at all...
Anon from 10:33 May 19th wrote:
"I'm an MLS grad from the 70's. I left that sheltered environment feeling superior to everyone else because, after all, that's what we were taught: better education, better faith, better human beings, right? "
I am also an MLS grad (won't say what year)...I agree strongly with what you wrote...
I was taught to believe that all other high schoolers not in prep (or at least not in a Christian related institution) were morally bankrupt and at best, semi-literate.
I was shocked when I heard of my neighborhood high schoolers obtaining scholarships to various universities. Since I did not go on to either NWC or DMLC, I was pretty much left out in the cold when it came to the ins and outs of the scholarship game.
Yeah, I had a great GPA, but no high school counselor advising me as to colleges or career advice other than the disappointing frowns when they found out I did not feel a calling to be a pastor or teacher. How many people truly feel a calling at 14 years old (when going off to school for the first time)?
In addition, I was always told how "evil" the outside world was. True, there are dirt bags in the secular world, but I met some of the best Christians (defined as those who trust in Christ for their salvation) I ever have known since leaving the confines of a WELS institution.
I met wonderful people at MLS; I also met some who I would not trust as far as I could throw them. I have found the proportion of jerks to good people is about the same wherever you go.
As for the person that made the "bell bottom wearing" remark, that was pretty low.
Lemke-el is an example of what happens when women do theology. Yes, there are the rare exceptions, but they are indeed rare.
Pastor Snowden Sims have been a pastor at Emmanuel Lutheran Church in Tempe for over a decade. He has also been the second vice president of the Arizona-California District for several years. He recently accepted a call to St. Paul Lutheran Church in Columbus, Ohio and will be moving at the end of the school year.
He is a man of sound theology and practice. His church is one of the stronger WELS churches in the Phoenix metro area (over 400 in church every Sunday, with a soundly Lutheran, liturgical, no church growth approach).
Most of this information is availble in the WELS yearbook, statistical report, and Emmanuel's website. I mention this because it underscores how uninformed many who write on this blog are and what few steps they take to verify their information. Instead, it seems that people are quite good at guessing at things which a little obvious research and a phone call or email to the person in question could easily answer correctly.
Anon 6:31 pm, I don't really know much about Pontius Pilate other than he wanted to crucify Christ. Sorry! I'm glad you understand the truth so well. Please, share with me how you do it!
Christians learn from methods of non-Christians, didn't know that was a bad thing. You've missed what I had to say, and in the case you are presenting, I hope you're not receiving any services from non-Christians right now, cause from what you've just said "they can't be trusted." I did not say pastors should become secular psychologists, please, you're embarrassing yourself.... with regard to the rest of your paragraph, continue believing what you want to believe. I will pray for you.
If you want to put all your faith and hope in the Lutheran Confessions, something written as a statement of belief against the Roman Catholic Church in the 1500s AD, then so be it.
Anon 8:03, call me what you want. I will pray for you.
Anon 8:06, or should I say N'go? I will pray for you.
Sims has accepted a call to St. Paul in German Village, downtown Columbus, Ohio.
Bespoke
Sorry to be away for a bit. Seems the discussion has gone on (and quite downhill) since I've been gone.
Responding to your last post directed to me (5/19 at 11:08a).
You said, "it's very apparent you're avoiding the issues I've brought forth." I think this is a very hypocritical thing to say. The only thing I have avoided addressing in your responses is this: "find for yourself a passage that you think is confusing or that appears to have been left out" which I have explained my reasons for not answering in a very clear manner. Mainly, I disagree with the premise of the question - I don't believe anything has been left out - you made that charge, not me. And as far as potentially confusing passages, why should I bother explaining any one passage - maybe we're already in full agreement?! I don't understand your strong refusal to provide any concrete examples.
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly refused to answer many questions. I've asked you to ask me what beliefs you'd like me to defend. I've asked you to state where you disagree with my beliefs. I've asked you whether or not you think it is possible for Scripture to be both errant and inerrant to different people or whether one of them must be true. I've asked you to explain how you can trust John 3:16 according to your worldview that Scripture may not be absolute and objective. Others have asked you to give one example of what you think needs revising in the Lutheran Confessions.
Agree to disagree? Do as you wish, but you sure have done your fair share of avoiding issues. For the most part, I'm not even sure what you are disagreeing with!
Lemkeel,
You have incorrectly described the scoring scheme for the Analytical Writing portion of the GRE.
Although this a little pedantic, I'm going to do for your post exactly what others here have requested that you do with respect to the Lutheran Confessions: namely, point out *specifically* where I disagree with the statements in question, and then furthermore follow up with the citations that show you exactly what your mistakes were.
I'm doing this not because I particularly care that you made some errors (although it is a little ironic that you actually erred in describing that of which you seem to be so proud). I'm doing this because I think it might provide a good example of the sort of "analytical writing" that you now need to employ to specify and articulate your criticisms of the Lutheran Confessions.
>>>Scorers are taught how to score the essays, then, two independent scorers read each essay, assigning a score from 1-6, as well as half increments.<<<
Wrong. Scorers do not assign half increments. Each essay is graded holistically in integrals 1-6 only. Half increments can result from averaged scores on the two essays and (in cases where a second scorer is actually used; these days the "second scorer" is usually a computer program) from averaging the 1-6 scores of the two scorers.
See: http://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/GRE/pdf/gre_0809_guide.pdf (pp. 10-11)
>>>The two scores from the independent judges are then averaged, and brought up a .5 increment to cover for potential error.<<<
Wrong. Scores are not "brought up a .5 increment", but rather rounded up TO the nearest .5 increment. If you have a score of 4.5, it will stay 4.5, not be "brought up a .5 increment" to 5.0. And it has nothing to do with "covering for potential error"--it's just that the scoring mechanism used for this test is imprecise enough that there's no statistically meaning in increments more fine than 0.5. Potential "error" is still just as large regardless of the rounding scheme used.
See: ftp://ftp.ets.org/pub/gre/994994.pdf (p. 4)
To be honest, there's precious little statistical meaning in the Writing part of the GRE at all. It was added quite recently for political reasons (men and women tend to do equally well on it). I'd be much more impressed if you listed good Verbal and Math GRE scores, or good Verbal and Math SAT scores for that matter. Those assessments have much longer histories, much greater meaning, and are much finer differentiators, statistically speaking.
ftp://ftp.ets.org/pub/gre/994994.pdf (p. 13-14)
However, whatever your test scores (and I warn you that if you want to get into a credential-based academic pissing contest, I will win), you are writing like an arrogant fool on this thread. If you are really the product of a WELS prep school, you are as good an argument as I've ever seen for abolishing them immediately. Are you really so clueless and petulant that you can't even specify ONE point of the Confessions that "needs to be revised" as you claim? Did you really not catch the reference to Pontius Pilate's sarcastic question to Jesus: "what is truth?" (John 18:38)? Do you not see how your own statements are very quickly slipping into Pilate's damnable relativistic error?
Repent. Or, at the very least, directly answer the question on the Confessions that you've been asked so many times.
Rocket Lutheran,
Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
Luke 6:37 "[Judging Others] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
Real quick, thanks for your description of your interpretation of the scoring scheme of the analytical writing portion of the GRE. In case you're wondering, I scored a 6. As far as my scores on the verbal and quantitative section, I'm not going to answer that. Let it be a mystery. Same for my ACT score. You want that you go find another academic pissing contest and go buck wild. With regard to the reference to "Pontius Pilate" it doesn't matter what he said or did, as his role was one of the many that fulfilled the prophecies that "Jesus will die on the cross for our sins." For me, that's all I need to know. For you, you can quibble all you like on Pontius Pilate.
Please, let us change the topic.
A relative was getting his vicar assignment from Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary. I watched the service on the web. The preacher, whom the bulletin said was a Prof. Hartwig did not preach the Gospel other than a passing reference or two to the word. He obviously then did not preach Christ crucified, in fact he went on at great length about the training of young ants by older ants, yes, ants. I learned more about ants than I did about Christ.
Is this typical of seminary prof's preaching (since this was a grand affair, I assume so.) If you don't believe me, check it out.
Oh, and as I heard from my relative, 11 seniors will not get calls.
Fabio
John wrote:
"This economic crisis also comes at a time when the WELS is facing a spiritual identity crisis. The last decade has seen the progressive Church and Change pastors take up leadership roles in the synod and guide the funding direction. C&Cers have shed the Lutheran name and liturgy in the name of "growth" or to be "relevant."
John, you and some of the other Bailing Water regulars see a struggle in WELS that does not exist.
You speak of WELS "identity crisis" as though this synod was once a high church bastion and is now losing that heritage. That's simpy not the case. For most of its existence, WELS has been a strictly black geneva crowd -- low church to the bone. They used TLH because that's what was in the pew, but they viewed with suspicion anyone wearing one of those KMA clerical collars. The introduction of non-traditional, blended services into this church body is exactly what one would expect, given our low-church heritage.
Regarding your statement that "progressive Church and Change pastors" have taken up "leadership roles in the synod and guide the funding direction," -- who are you talking about? There are some pastors in our synod who prefer more traditional approaches to ministry, and there are some who could be labeled "progressive," and there are plenty who land somewhere between. The same has been true of our synod's leaders. They generally get along very well, because of another element of WELS tradition -- a strong appreciation of the principle of "Christian freedom." (Google it.)
But you must continue this blog. Your conspiracy theory that there is some kind of Church and Change insurgency is highly entertaining. It's a great fiction, and the fact that you believe it makes it even more entertaining. (The *contemporary worship = devil worship* thread was a comedic masterpiece. Could we get more of the same?) Thanks for the laughs -- please keep them coming!
anonymous 11:26 am
I certainly appreciate the affirmation to continue this widely read blog. Your condescending tone is laughable also. I will note that I do understand the low-church heritage of the WELS. However, the crisis in identity is not linked to a low church perspective. It is attached to a lack of understanding of Scriptural truths as espoused in our Lutheran Confessions. This is evident in the current trend in the rock and roll churches that are shedding any Lutheran identity in name, worship (practice, sermon,and music). You would argue that this is about personal preference. That is certainly true from a non-denominational stance. The C&C leading backers have allowed this stance to perpetuate itself in most districts.
At a recent rock and roll worship gathering the esteemed reverend didn't trot out in a geneva gown or a collar but rather in a worn out pair of jeans. The theme of the sermon series was stolen from a non-denominational source. If this is a conspiracy theory so be it. But I would view it as a spiritual identity crisis.
Gosh if I google "Christian Freedom" BW is near the top of the list, but I also come up with a progressive church and change leader in a synodical position. Guess who?
Lemkeel seems to be willing to use his power of independent thought, which amazingly survived his years in the WELS system. How long have you been trying to get people in the WELS to listen to you or even consider looking at anything differently than they did 30 years earlier? Any changes, even minor ones, as a result of your efforts and emotion?
KD
KD,
?? No comment.
Dango wrote:
"This is what is called a straw man. He sets up this straw man "some people" and then knocks it down. "How smart am I!?" No one teaches that."
Dango, how do you know that no one teaches that? Have you talked to everyone? Attended every church? If not, it seems you are in danger of having created your own straw man.
Actually, some "health and welfare gospel" preachers come pretty close to teaching the very thing thats you say no one teaches. So you're going to bash Pastor Sims for preaching the theology of the cross? Pathetic.
Pastor Ben,
Perhaps you addressed this in a newer post (I only read about 2/3 of the posts). You point out that there is no proof that another manner of producing called workers would work.
I would point out that such proof could never exist as long as MLS remains open, as we can´t know what sort of impact closing the school would have on the numbers of pastors and teachers coming out of other avenues.
So it´s really an argument that because situation A is known, where as situation B can not be known (as long as situation A is ongoing), therefore situation A is superior. There is a fault in logic there.
I also think you, and others, sell ALHS short. The ALHS that I attended did have a "pastor track" option. This included Latin and German course (4 full years available in both). I can´t speak for other ALHS, but I imagine many already have such options available (and with the recent addition of Spanish to the Pastor track, that is certainly present in all of the ALHS). The idea that prep schools are better at preparing candidates for ministry is somewhat of an outdated concept IMHO. Both can produce very well prepared candidates, there is no better or worse. ALHS could definitely step up encouraging candidates for ministry (something they could do better, and would have to do better were MLS to close). But let´s not act like ALHS are producing candidates of lower quality in regards to future ministry.
Also, I found the post by a former MLS student who now is a parent to make a great point. Parents play a very important role in the raising of their children. Having my parents in my life during my very influential teenage years was a HUGE blessing. That is a blessing that many of our prep school students miss out on, and it leaves those influential teenage years to be developed (at least 9 months out of the year) by Tutors and peers.
While I don´t want to paint with too wide of a brush, this lack of parent involvement did manifest itself in some immaturity that stood out in my first years at our synod´s college that was specifically present with some (not all) of the Prep students, while it was absent, even abhorred, by those who didn´t come from that background (I don´t think I have to spell out the specifics, you can probably guess what I´m talking about). Many of these problems were ironed out with time (either by the students dropping out, or by late development of maturity), but it did emphasize for many of us the importance of having parents in their children´s lives during the important mid-teenage years (why I personally would never send my child to a prep school).
That said, I do recognize the value of having one prep school (Luther Prep). There are those who do not have any ALHS near them, and would like to have the background of the (confessional) languages for the pastor track (or have an ALHS that doesn´t offer those languages). For those, sending their children to a Prep School may be a legitimate option.
Because some are wondering if Lemkeel is a he or she, and because she comments on numerous WELS blogs at length...
Lemkeel = Elisabeth Lemke, LPS class of 1998.
However - Please don't take her writing skills or theological arguments as representative of the quality of education that students receive at LPS (or MLS, for that matter). Her thoughts are strictly her own, heavily informed by the secular education she is now pursuing. Most LPS graduates are much more articulate - and faithful to the Bible and the Lutheran Confessions.
I will agree that Snowden Sims is a faithful pastor and was an effective Dean, despite the fact that the quality of her writing and her arguments may reflect poorly on him.
Anon 12:22 am, who is this? So, you can expose someone else's identity against her wish and then you cowardly don't identify yourself? Tell me, do you tan to darken the color of yellow belly or do you boldly and proudly proclaim how fearful and ashamed you really are???
Busted budgets mean nothing at WELS. It the norm more than the exception.
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