After much thought and prayer, I have come to realize that it is time to bail from Bailing Water. I believe that this blog has allowed me the chance to dig deeper into Scripture, the Lutheran Confessions, and the doctrine of the WELS.
I have been reflecting back on where this journey has gone and where it is going. Not being a delegate at this year's convention I followed the streaming video on wels.net and the discussion on the imprint blog. Shortly after the convention, I stumbled on this blog run at that time by someone else. Another person picked it up to continue the discussion and then dropped it. So I resurrected this blog from the blogging ashes.
I believe much of the conversation has been fruitful and thought provoking. I also realize that some readers view every position espoused by the WELS to be inerrant. Some readers clearly articulated double standards in doctrine and practice in the WELS. Some readers simply threw mud. Some readers stood tall and identified themselves and issues of importance. Some readers yelled at me to contact the names mentioned. I did. You can read the labels and stories to the right to travel the Bailing Water journey.
So where is this blog and discussion heading? I don't know. I feel negligent in not posting a topic each day or week. Yet I need to find a balance. I have obligations to my family and work as do you.
I believe that the change in leadership in the WELS is positive. Yet I also strongly feel that the cutting edge pastors are the ones setting the worship and practice agenda (Church and Change) in the WELS.
One pastor I communicated with suggested that routinely following a liturgical format is akin to following behavior modification theories.
I have many unanswered questions. I think that a WELS internet forum is a benefit. Someone suggested a cyberspace convention.
I would like you the reader to post your reflections (eulogy) on Bailing Water. I will let the blog float along with your comments.
Sunday, January 27, 2008
Thursday, January 24, 2008
Worship workshop
Dear friend,
Is your congregation looking to add variety to its worship services or looking to explore ways to use worship as an evangelism tool? Then consider attending WELS National Conference on Worship, Music and the Arts. Whether you’re a pastor, teacher, or lay person, you’ll leave full of ideas to try at your own church. The conference will be held July 28-31, 2008, at Gustavus Adolphus College in St. Peters, Minn. Workshops include:
Moving Beyond Obstacles and Good Intentions
Proclamation and Praise in Song and Music
Worship and Synod
Worship and Outreach
Building Visions & Futures
There are also workshops on singing, instruments, choirs, organ, history of worship, composers, technology, diversity, art, architecture, and special workshops on Christian Worship: Supplement.
Every attendee at the conference will receive a free copy of the new supplement.
For more information see our Web site http://www.wels.net/jump/worship
Monday, January 21, 2008
COP concludes winter meeting
http://together.wels.net/
........Various topics relating to doctrine and practice were discussed, such as worship, outreach, congregational organization/structure, and the role of the synod in assisting congregations. Most, if not all, of these issues will be discussed in pastoral conferences in the coming year and in future meetings of the COP.
........Various topics relating to doctrine and practice were discussed, such as worship, outreach, congregational organization/structure, and the role of the synod in assisting congregations. Most, if not all, of these issues will be discussed in pastoral conferences in the coming year and in future meetings of the COP.
Role of Men and Women
3) Roles of men and women-it appears that this needs to be relooked at so that we can see what passages are prescriptive and descriptive (from what I could tell in this blog-you might want to hang Paul in the town square for his use of women in the church). There seems to be much confusion at this time.
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There has been some discussion on this topic here: http://bailingwater.blogspot.com/2007/09/role-of-men-and-women.html
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There has been some discussion on this topic here: http://bailingwater.blogspot.com/2007/09/role-of-men-and-women.html
Saturday, January 19, 2008
Church Discipline
1) Church discipline-Our churches have become quite laxed in this progress. I can find a few reasons for this: a) Lack of training our elders and other spiritual leaders, b) Lack of understanding by the congregational as it is an act of love, c) pastor[s] laziness in his duties...
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First of all, is church discipline lax towards members who are unrepentant? What about a congressman who supports abortion as a part of his political platform? Should this congressman be allowed to be a member of a WELS church?
Other perspectives ??
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First of all, is church discipline lax towards members who are unrepentant? What about a congressman who supports abortion as a part of his political platform? Should this congressman be allowed to be a member of a WELS church?
Other perspectives ??
Wednesday, January 16, 2008
WELS pastor continues to plagiarize Reformed sermons
1/19/08 Update -- the linked sermons below have been removed!!!
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It is sad that the WELS is allowing the Church and Change group to lead the way in the synod.
It is also sad that WELS pastors in Green Bay resort to plagiarized sermons and yet the WELS leadership does nothing.
Here is a comment that was recently left on BW...
--------------
Check out this recent sermon (Dec. 23, 2007)from Parlow's church in Green Bay. It doesn't say who "wrote" the sermon, but as has been mentioned on this site and others, Parlow has plagiarized at least one sermon in the past.
Anyway, here is an excerpt from the sermon:
"'Joy' is clearly a Christmas
word. Those other activities can make us happy but don’t confuse happiness with joy. They are
not the same thing. Happiness is temporary; joy is lasting. Happiness is on the surface; joy is
deep down. It is not unusual to have joy without happiness and even have happiness without joy.
A few years ago there was a book published entitled, The Progress Paradox. It documented the enormous improvement in American lives over recent generations. Average life expectancy has doubled since 1900. Undernourishment was a major problem in our country and now we are “over nourished.” How many of us aren’t officially overweight according to the national BMI
scale? Central heating was unusual and air conditioning unknown. Medical care is much more
sophisticated and available."
Here is an excerpt from Lieth Anderson of "Faith Matters":
"'Joy' is clearly a Chirstmas word....We sometimes confuse joy and happiness althout they are not the same. Happiness is temporary; joy is lasting. Happiness is on the surface; joy is deep down inside. It is not unusual to have joy without happiness and it is not unusual for some who have happiness not to have joy.
The progress Paradox by Gregg Easterbrook documents enourmous improvement in the American way of life and standard of living over recent generations. Average life expectancy in the United States has doubled since 1900. Undernourishment was a major problem, but now we are 'over-nourished'. Central heating used to be unusual and few homes had central air conditioning. Today medical care is much more sophisticated and available."
The St. Mark's sermon is here:
http://stmarkpartners.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=110
The "Faith Matters" article is here:
www.oneplace.com/common/transcripts/fm/ADV-03.pdf
PP
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Ha! The Sermon from the week before is the same way. From "The Gif of Peace - Dec. 16":
"In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke. In order to explore down deep the oceanographers have built bathyspheres. They are like miniature submarines constructed out of steel plates that are several inches thick. They have thick "skins" to stop the crushing power of the pressure on the outside from getting to the scientists on the inside. When those bathyspheres finally settle on the ocean floor and turn on their lights for exploration, the scientists see fish—fish with very thin skins. Why don’t they implode? Those fish have pressure inside them equal and opposite to the pressure outside. They are able to swim freely and easily where we would be destroyed."
Type "In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke" into Google and you find this:
"In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke. In order to explore down deep the oceanographers have built bathyspheres. They are like miniature submarines constructed out of steel plates that are several inches thick. They have thick "skins" to stop the crushing power of the pressure on the outside from getting to the scientists on the inside.
When those bathyspheres finally settle on the ocean floor and turn on their lights for exploration, the scientists see fish—fish with very thin skins. Why don’t they implode? Those fish have pressure inside them equal and opposite to the pressure outside. They are able to swim freely and easily where we would be destroyed.
That is what peace is like. Peace on the inside is equal and opposite of all the stresses and pressures crushing us from the outside."
myflock2.com/orgs_pub/church838/caldb/sermons/Peace_for_Our_Hearts.doc
PP
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It is sad that the WELS is allowing the Church and Change group to lead the way in the synod.
It is also sad that WELS pastors in Green Bay resort to plagiarized sermons and yet the WELS leadership does nothing.
Here is a comment that was recently left on BW...
--------------
Check out this recent sermon (Dec. 23, 2007)from Parlow's church in Green Bay. It doesn't say who "wrote" the sermon, but as has been mentioned on this site and others, Parlow has plagiarized at least one sermon in the past.
Anyway, here is an excerpt from the sermon:
"'Joy' is clearly a Christmas
word. Those other activities can make us happy but don’t confuse happiness with joy. They are
not the same thing. Happiness is temporary; joy is lasting. Happiness is on the surface; joy is
deep down. It is not unusual to have joy without happiness and even have happiness without joy.
A few years ago there was a book published entitled, The Progress Paradox. It documented the enormous improvement in American lives over recent generations. Average life expectancy has doubled since 1900. Undernourishment was a major problem in our country and now we are “over nourished.” How many of us aren’t officially overweight according to the national BMI
scale? Central heating was unusual and air conditioning unknown. Medical care is much more
sophisticated and available."
Here is an excerpt from Lieth Anderson of "Faith Matters":
"'Joy' is clearly a Chirstmas word....We sometimes confuse joy and happiness althout they are not the same. Happiness is temporary; joy is lasting. Happiness is on the surface; joy is deep down inside. It is not unusual to have joy without happiness and it is not unusual for some who have happiness not to have joy.
The progress Paradox by Gregg Easterbrook documents enourmous improvement in the American way of life and standard of living over recent generations. Average life expectancy in the United States has doubled since 1900. Undernourishment was a major problem, but now we are 'over-nourished'. Central heating used to be unusual and few homes had central air conditioning. Today medical care is much more sophisticated and available."
The St. Mark's sermon is here:
http://stmarkpartners.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=110
The "Faith Matters" article is here:
www.oneplace.com/common/transcripts/fm/ADV-03.pdf
PP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha! The Sermon from the week before is the same way. From "The Gif of Peace - Dec. 16":
"In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke. In order to explore down deep the oceanographers have built bathyspheres. They are like miniature submarines constructed out of steel plates that are several inches thick. They have thick "skins" to stop the crushing power of the pressure on the outside from getting to the scientists on the inside. When those bathyspheres finally settle on the ocean floor and turn on their lights for exploration, the scientists see fish—fish with very thin skins. Why don’t they implode? Those fish have pressure inside them equal and opposite to the pressure outside. They are able to swim freely and easily where we would be destroyed."
Type "In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke" into Google and you find this:
"In the great depths of the oceans the pressure is enough to crush a submarine like a can of Coke. In order to explore down deep the oceanographers have built bathyspheres. They are like miniature submarines constructed out of steel plates that are several inches thick. They have thick "skins" to stop the crushing power of the pressure on the outside from getting to the scientists on the inside.
When those bathyspheres finally settle on the ocean floor and turn on their lights for exploration, the scientists see fish—fish with very thin skins. Why don’t they implode? Those fish have pressure inside them equal and opposite to the pressure outside. They are able to swim freely and easily where we would be destroyed.
That is what peace is like. Peace on the inside is equal and opposite of all the stresses and pressures crushing us from the outside."
myflock2.com/orgs_pub/church838/caldb/sermons/Peace_for_Our_Hearts.doc
PP
Thursday, January 10, 2008
Replacing prophecies with bible stories
Mr. C said...
I just read this in the WELS Q&A. I remember my pastor mentioning something about this not too long ago also:
"A committee preparing Christian Worship Supplement (set for publication in July 2008) has revised the CW set of lessons somewhat. The same Gospel selections will be offered, but some of the Old Testament prophecies will be replaced by Old Testament "Bible stories" (narratives). This revised lectionary will also offer a set of Epistle readings that more closely match the Gospel theme and do not rely on lectio continua."
What do you all think about this? Replacing prophecies with bible stories? Similarly, do any of your churches use the one year lectionary cycle (I don't know if that is the right word/phrase)?
Mr. C -- January 10, 2008 4:06 PM
-----------------------------------------------
There is a paper about this here:
http://www.blc.edu/comm/gargy/gargy1/AlexRing.gpc.html
Pr. Ring
I just read this in the WELS Q&A. I remember my pastor mentioning something about this not too long ago also:
"A committee preparing Christian Worship Supplement (set for publication in July 2008) has revised the CW set of lessons somewhat. The same Gospel selections will be offered, but some of the Old Testament prophecies will be replaced by Old Testament "Bible stories" (narratives). This revised lectionary will also offer a set of Epistle readings that more closely match the Gospel theme and do not rely on lectio continua."
What do you all think about this? Replacing prophecies with bible stories? Similarly, do any of your churches use the one year lectionary cycle (I don't know if that is the right word/phrase)?
Mr. C -- January 10, 2008 4:06 PM
-----------------------------------------------
There is a paper about this here:
http://www.blc.edu/comm/gargy/gargy1/AlexRing.gpc.html
Pr. Ring
Prayer Fellowship
I recently spoke to 2 different WELS pastors about various issues and about this blog. I would like to bring up one issue that was discussed and that is on the WELS position on prayer fellowship.
I had the opportunity to witness and pray with a family that had gone through a horrible tragedy. This family belonged to a Christian (non-WELS) church.
In trying to comprehend the doctrinal position of the WELS on prayer fellowship, I spoke to these WELS pastors and got 2 different answers. Pastor A said that I should say that I prayed "for" them and not "with" them. (help me out her Mr. Grammarian).
Pastor B said this private prayer with the family is not forbidden in Scripture and I didn't sin. This pastor went on to say that there are also varying degrees of close communion that synod pastors use to admit member to the Holy table.
Here are a few links on the subject of prayer fellowship...
http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.brugreview.html
http://www.studiumexcitare.com/vol_1_no_1/prayer_fellowship.html
I had the opportunity to witness and pray with a family that had gone through a horrible tragedy. This family belonged to a Christian (non-WELS) church.
In trying to comprehend the doctrinal position of the WELS on prayer fellowship, I spoke to these WELS pastors and got 2 different answers. Pastor A said that I should say that I prayed "for" them and not "with" them. (help me out her Mr. Grammarian).
Pastor B said this private prayer with the family is not forbidden in Scripture and I didn't sin. This pastor went on to say that there are also varying degrees of close communion that synod pastors use to admit member to the Holy table.
Here are a few links on the subject of prayer fellowship...
http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.brugreview.html
...On the subject of joint prayer between spouses who belong to different churches, Brug himself states elsewhere that
If one spouse is a non-Christian, the Christian partner may pray for and in the presence of the non-Christian husband or wife. Obviously, they cannot pray together. If the other spouse is a member of a heterodox church and ridicules or rejects the beliefs of our member, joint prayer is hardly possible. If the other spouse’s membership in a heterodox church is seen as a matter of weakness in understanding, joint prayer may be possible in the privacy of the home. (Church Fellowship: Working Together for the Truth [Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1996], p. 149)
http://www.studiumexcitare.com/vol_1_no_1/prayer_fellowship.html
Wednesday, January 2, 2008
WELS in 2008
I trust that all had a blessed Christmas with family and friends. I had the chance to travel a bit and attend several different WELS churches (even one church that still uses TLH).
I would like to open up the discussion forum once again. You may post on whatever topic you feel is important.
You might want to address what you think is the most important issue or topic that the WELS will face this new year.
Again, please sign your comments (and be consistent with your signature - or alias). Please keep the comments focused on Lutheran topics. All viewpoints are appreciated and members of any churchbody may post.
I would like to open up the discussion forum once again. You may post on whatever topic you feel is important.
You might want to address what you think is the most important issue or topic that the WELS will face this new year.
Again, please sign your comments (and be consistent with your signature - or alias). Please keep the comments focused on Lutheran topics. All viewpoints are appreciated and members of any churchbody may post.
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