tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post9052657777049872337..comments2023-04-26T04:36:47.052-05:00Comments on Bailing Water: Synodical Council meeting highlightsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-43268098181529914582007-11-28T22:22:00.000-06:002007-11-28T22:22:00.000-06:00Read The Motley Magpie.Read The Motley Magpie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-17707371114675103042007-11-22T10:14:00.000-06:002007-11-22T10:14:00.000-06:00I was wondering, is the WELS synod in its Year of ...I was wondering, is the WELS synod in its Year of Jubilee going to forgive all loans that it has with congregations? Sounds like a nice thing to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-75786698855145552652007-11-21T21:36:00.000-06:002007-11-21T21:36:00.000-06:00"Are all MLC grads this polite?"I'm not a MLC grad..."Are all MLC grads this polite?"<BR/><BR/>I'm not a MLC grad. I am not a teacher. I am not a pastor. I am just a regular 'ole layperson. <BR/><BR/>Now, MLC students have their faults, but I wrote it and I haven't stepped foot on that campus since 1998 when I was there for a gradeschool basketball meet. So, I can't blame MLC for my lack of maturity (and for others who lack maturity on here, I am thinking they can't all blame MLC either).<BR/><BR/>I have no idea why you thought I was an MLC grad, but I'm a solid product of a lovely secular college in a conservative part of the country (i.e. My prof for "Issues of Unity and Diversity" was Irish and solidly pro-life as was my entire class. It was a very boring "debate" day as we all agreed).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-56630742268819159592007-11-21T17:28:00.000-06:002007-11-21T17:28:00.000-06:00St. Marvin of Schwan bankrupted WELS. It was not h...St. Marvin of Schwan bankrupted WELS. It was not his fault, but his gifts lubricated the downhill slide of WELS. Giving money to greedy, wasteful men is a big mistake. They should have been given copies of the Triglotta and some Lutheran theological works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-5407921918032345802007-11-21T15:05:00.000-06:002007-11-21T15:05:00.000-06:00"Just posting because I noticed that we were on co..."Just posting because I noticed that we were on comment "69." I recognize that the number may be offensive to some, so here you go--post 70...to ensure no one is made to feel uncomfortable in any way, shape or form."<BR/><BR/>Are all MLC grads this polite?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-90315581124614196752007-11-21T11:56:00.000-06:002007-11-21T11:56:00.000-06:00What interests me is the WLC calling process. Rig...What interests me is the WLC calling process. Right now I see that a search committee is on the look out for a new president. I don't think anything is necessarily wrong with having a call process follow this format. But is this how WLC fills all its teaching position?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-34071202867641439662007-11-21T11:48:00.000-06:002007-11-21T11:48:00.000-06:00Just posting because I noticed that we were on com...Just posting because I noticed that we were on comment "69." I recognize that the number may be offensive to some, so here you go--post 70...to ensure no one is made to feel uncomfortable in any way, shape or form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-3952458928272621862007-11-21T11:41:00.000-06:002007-11-21T11:41:00.000-06:00"See, this is my problem with WLC. It's kinda like..."See, this is my problem with WLC. It's kinda like the Boy Scouts. It claims to be religious when it's profitable to be religious. It claims to be secular when it's profitable to be secular. WLC needs to make its mind up. If they want to be a religious organization (centered around Word and Sacrament) then they should have called pastoral leadership. If they want to be a secular organization, then they should stop advertising in churches and publishing Charis.<BR/><BR/>(Thrivent is another good example of such an organization."<BR/><BR/>WLC is nothing like Thrivent. All of WLC's teachers are called and members in good standing of a WELS congregation. All of WLC's theology professors are called and ordained WELS clergy.<BR/><BR/>You need to stop speculating about WLC’s motives. People that have attended WLC know what it is like. Those that haven't can either take your word--which makes little sense and projects impure motives into the hearts of those involved with WLC--or they can take the word of those who have actually attended WLC and know the administrators and professors. <BR/><BR/>Will people here believe the person with first-hand knowledge or the anonymous slanderer? <BR/><BR/>Another observer<BR/><BR/>PS: Regarding your repeated comments about Charis--do you actually read what other people have written, or do you just imagine that you know what they have written and then respond to those imaginary arguments? Charis' connection with WLC has already been explained. Charis is now on an indefinite hiatus. <BR/><BR/>As one poster already said--if you insist on accusing WLC of false doctrine, our Lutheran understanding of the Eight Commandment requires that you either substantiate that claim with PROOF or sit on your hands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-53228889650313709282007-11-21T10:40:00.000-06:002007-11-21T10:40:00.000-06:00"Even at our small, struggling congregation a memb..."Even at our small, struggling congregation a member once asked "Maybe the Schwann fund can help us out"."<BR/><BR/>The same sort of mindset is present at my congregation too. We let ourselves get deeper and deeper into debt while hoping that a large gift will be made to rescue us. The gift inevitably gets made, everyone says, "See, God provides!" and then the cycle starts all over again and back into debt we go. Nobody realizes that God can also provide through their regular offerings and that if they supported our mission as generously as they could, we wouldn't need to hope for large gifts in the first place. It seems that the WELS operates in much the same way: get into debt and then hope for large, one-time gifts to save us. That's not trusting God, that's tempting God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-43119838130228218822007-11-21T10:26:00.000-06:002007-11-21T10:26:00.000-06:00Right.Right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-65922100837092565362007-11-21T10:09:00.000-06:002007-11-21T10:09:00.000-06:00"Perhaps in the long run the Schwann fund has actu..."Perhaps in the long run the Schwann fund has actually been more of a curse than a blessing."<BR/><BR/>Not for WLC...but then again "[i]t claims to be religious when it's profitable to be religious. It claims to be secular when it's profitable to be secular," right Anon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-74414517322489709832007-11-21T09:49:00.000-06:002007-11-21T09:49:00.000-06:00Wow, the subject really seems to have migrated fro...Wow, the subject really seems to have migrated from what I thought would have mainly been a conversation on how WELS handles it finances.<BR/><BR/>I still think that WELS has a poor record of long term and strategic planning.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps in the long run the Schwann fund has actually been more of a curse than a blessing. <BR/><BR/>Even at our small, struggling congregation a member once asked "Maybe the Schwann fund can help us out".<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the calvary is not riding to the rescue; sometimes YOU ARE THE CALVARY.<BR/><BR/>Just a few words for thought:<BR/><BR/>Manage your money, or your money manages you.<BR/><BR/>Good planning beats wishful thinking everytime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-5307051204523346912007-11-19T20:40:00.000-06:002007-11-19T20:40:00.000-06:00"By that line of thinking we should also do away w..."By that line of thinking we should also do away with Lutheran grade schools and high schools - why bother having a Lutheran school for many that will not go into the ministry?"<BR/><BR/>But the grade schools and high schools are very clear about being part of the church. They're very clear about being led by those who have been trained and called as ministers. Their focus very clearly is on the means of grace.<BR/><BR/>None of those things can be said of WLC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-44273727377896574992007-11-19T20:27:00.000-06:002007-11-19T20:27:00.000-06:00"If that's true, then why bother with a theology d..."If that's true, then why bother with a theology department? Why bother calling yourself a Lutheran college?"<BR/><BR/>By that line of thinking we should also do away with Lutheran grade schools and high schools - why bother having a Lutheran school for many that will not go into the ministry?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-27202301881715697962007-11-19T19:58:00.000-06:002007-11-19T19:58:00.000-06:00"After all, the purpose of WLC is to provide a col..."After all, the purpose of WLC is to provide a college education to WELS laymembers who will serve in various vocations"<BR/><BR/>If that's true, then why bother with a theology department? Why bother calling yourself a Lutheran college? Why bother publishing things like Charis?<BR/><BR/>"And being vice-president in a company like Medtronic means this man would be experienced in leading and working with large groups of people"<BR/><BR/>What about his theological experience and aptitude and understanding? What about his Christian character and example? Does that have any place at all?<BR/><BR/>See, this is my problem with WLC. It's kinda like the Boy Scouts. It claims to be religious when it's profitable to be religious. It claims to be secular when it's profitable to be secular. WLC needs to make its mind up. If they want to be a religious organization (centered around Word and Sacrament) then they should have called pastoral leadership. If they want to be a secular organization, then they should stop advertising in churches and publishing Charis.<BR/><BR/>(Thrivent is another good example of such an organization.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-29822920843117487082007-11-19T19:47:00.000-06:002007-11-19T19:47:00.000-06:00Dear Anonymous of 7:02,I am not familiar with your...Dear Anonymous of 7:02,<BR/><BR/>I am not familiar with your definition of vocation. Where are you getting this definition?<BR/><BR/>I understand vocation as those callings that God gives to Christians, clergy and/or lay. I have not heard before that vocation is limited to the secular realm.<BR/><BR/>I have heard and believe that some vocations are common to all Christians--such as all Christians having the calling to hear God's Word and receive his gifts through that Word. Or all Christians having the vocation to pray.<BR/><BR/>Likewise, the roles in the family that we possess (Consider your place in life according to the Ten Commandments: Are you a father, mother, sister, brother . . ) and our jobs (. . . or student? As one source lists them) are also vocations that are not common to all Christians. This means that clergy have the vocation to serve in the office; lay memebers do not, but serve God in their vocations--at home and/or in the workfield.<BR/><BR/>It is this understanding of vocation that sees all service done by Christians as pleasing to God and extensions of God's love into the world, thus leaving no need to make everyone a minister so everyone can get their chance to serve God. But that is a different topic.<BR/><BR/>Back to the point here, what is wrong with having a lay-member as the president of WLC? After all, the purpose of WLC is to provide a college education to WELS laymembers who will serve in various vocations--such as a vice-president at Medtronice--while remaining faithful Christians. Seems to me that such a lay-person would be an excellent choice to lead such an institution.<BR/><BR/>And being vice-president in a company like Medtronic means this man would be experienced in leading and working with large groups of people; again, a good fit for the administrative post of college president. Such a man would be well qualified to serve in that vocation.<BR/><BR/>RNNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-10674736162191858702007-11-19T19:02:00.000-06:002007-11-19T19:02:00.000-06:00No, it means they have a terrible understanding of...No, it means they have a terrible understanding of the doctrine of vocation. Vocation refers to the laity serving God in the secular world, not the laity taking on positions of religious leadership in the church or church organizations. (Or at least the claim by WLC is that WLC is part of the church. I tend to disagree.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-59809767296959236002007-11-19T18:58:00.000-06:002007-11-19T18:58:00.000-06:00"More importantly, what does any of that have to d..."More importantly, what does any of that have to do with leading a (supposedly) religious institution?"<BR/><BR/>It shows that WLC has a good understanding of the doctrine of vocation--not everyone has to be in the ministry to use their God given talents to do God pleasing work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-35128538840285393232007-11-19T18:23:00.000-06:002007-11-19T18:23:00.000-06:00A press release was just issued regarding the reti...A press release was just issued regarding the retirement of WLC's president. I thought this paragraph was particularly interesting:<BR/><BR/>"Prior to the Wisconsin Lutheran presidency, Kriewall, a biomedical engineer, was vice president of research and development at Medtronic in Jacksonville, Fla. With both Medtronic and also 3M Company, Kriewall devoted much of his professional life to developing medical products ranging from cochlear implants to heart/lung machines."<BR/><BR/>What does any of that have to do with being the president of a college? More importantly, what does any of that have to do with leading a (supposedly) religious institution? How could anyone look at that and say that MLC and WLC are on the same theological level or that they (should) share the same purpose, goals, or mission?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-57429018855745982252007-11-19T16:35:00.000-06:002007-11-19T16:35:00.000-06:00"It was referring to the original person who claim..."It was referring to the original person who claimed that all WLC profs were WELS certified. I never said anything about you."<BR/><BR/>You quoted me. I think it was reasonable mistake, but thanks for the clarification. <BR/><BR/>"Now, since WLC taught you so well, it should be clear that if you are wondering how a WELS certified prof would have been beneficial, then you must not have had a WELS certified prof."<BR/><BR/>Read what I wrote again. You said, "Hmm, so all of your profs weren't WELS certified? Very interesting." The words "all of my profs weren't WELS certified" appear nowhere in what I wrote. In fact, I don't know if they were. Again, "certified or not" wasn't my point. The point was, does WELS certification make a professor better at teaching a Southern Novel class? What is/are/would be/have been/ the benefits of having WELS certified college professors in subjects such as English, Ecconomics, History, etc.? <BR/><BR/>"If the prof was WELS certified, that sentence would make no sense."<BR/><BR/>I used the wrong verb tense. My apologies. I guess that is what I get for using my real name--public grammar-based humiliation. <BR/><BR/>JDPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-57966859233534176202007-11-19T14:14:00.000-06:002007-11-19T14:14:00.000-06:00"Did I say that?" Yup. Let me quote you: "leads m..."Did I say that?" <BR/><BR/>Yup. Let me quote you: "leads me to question how the college or I would have benefited from having a "WELS-certified" professor" Now, since WLC taught you so well, it should be clear that if you are wondering how a WELS certified prof would have been beneficial, then you must not have had a WELS certified prof. If the prof was WELS certified, that sentence would make no sense.<BR/><BR/>"I'd have to know what you mean by "WELS certified" to answer that."<BR/><BR/>WELS certification is the process by which WELS schools certify that their teachers have been instructed in Christian and Lutheran truths. This is done by going to MLC, or by going through their certification process. Just reading through the faculty directory online reveals that most WLC profs did not go to (D)MLC. Have they really all gone through the certification process? <BR/><BR/>"Oh yeah, and WLC taught me to respond to what people actually say."<BR/><BR/>Really? Because my question about deception or mistake wasn't even referring to you. It was referring to the original person who claimed that all WLC profs were WELS certified. I never said anything about you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-56706288922770717062007-11-19T13:49:00.000-06:002007-11-19T13:49:00.000-06:00"Hmm, so all of your profs weren't WELS certified?..."Hmm, so all of your profs weren't WELS certified?"<BR/><BR/>Did I say that? I'd have to know what you mean by "WELS certified" to answer that. <BR/><BR/>"Others very strenuously made the point that all WLC profs were WELS certified and called."<BR/><BR/>And others have insisted they are not. What is your point? <BR/><BR/>Oh, here it is:<BR/><BR/>"Purposeful deception or ignorant mistake?"<BR/><BR/>Nope. My point is, "certified" or not (see above--I don't know), the professors I had were great. <BR/><BR/>Oh yeah, and WLC taught me to respond to what people actually say. I know its hard though, as our flesh (myself included) often tempts us to play "gotcha" instead. <BR/><BR/>JDPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-35270902745774374682007-11-19T13:18:00.000-06:002007-11-19T13:18:00.000-06:00"In fact, all my professors were excellent--a fact..."In fact, all my professors were excellent--a fact which leads me to question how the college or I would have benefited from having a "WELS-certified" professor teach a seminar course on the southern novel."<BR/><BR/>Hmm, so all of your profs weren't WELS certified? Very interesting. Others very strenuously made the point that all WLC profs were WELS certified and called. <BR/><BR/>Purposeful deception or ignorant mistake?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-4217775242785278982007-11-19T12:14:00.000-06:002007-11-19T12:14:00.000-06:00WLC dissers, At least one of you have accused ...WLC dissers, <BR/><BR/> At least one of you have accused WLC (and/or its administrators and teachers)of false doctrine. I'd like to know more about this. If public and true, it is a serious matter and you need to be more specific. If you cannot provide details, then you need to exercise some control over those busy typing fingers and kindly let some of your more prurient thoughts remain unexpressed.<BR/><BR/> I'm a graduate of WLC. My theology professors and courses were excellent, as were my history and philosophy courses--which were also taught by highly qualified WELS pastors. In fact, all my professors were excellent--a fact which leads me to question how the college or I would have benefited from having a "WELS-certified" professor teach a seminar course on the southern novel. <BR/><BR/> Moreover, I'm not sure what Charis has to do with this conversation. To my knowledge, Charis' perspective is not the college's. In fact, the last I heard, Charis had ceased operation indefinitely. And to the poster that said this:<BR/><BR/>“Come on Charis and C&C are different, but they are connected because some of the people associated with C&C are also associated with Charis. Let's not pretend that they are 2 distinct groups with nothing to do with each other--they are connected by commonality in peopple (sic) involved, thought, theory, doctrine & practice.”<BR/><BR/> Couldn’t the same thing be said about C&C and the WELS? <BR/><BR/>JDPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-6915957753240945962007-11-19T10:51:00.000-06:002007-11-19T10:51:00.000-06:00"interested observer and CL,Are we being too pessi..."interested observer and CL,<BR/><BR/>Are we being too pessimistic, or are we being realistic while you're overly optimistic?<BR/><BR/>Only time will tell." - Anonymous<BR/><BR/>I suppose time will tell, though pessimistic attitudes tend to be self-fulfilling. I hope it's not as widespread of an attitude in the WELS as it is in this thread. <BR/><BR/>Every year, when it comes time to budget for the next fiscal year at our church, there are those who claim to be realistic, not pessimistic, when putting limits on God's promises. We've gone from collecting @$70,000 in 2000 to a budget of @$260,000 this year. I don't remember a single year where we increased the budget by less than 10%. A few years we've increased it by well over 20%. Yet every year, "realists" object to projecting a rise in offerings by more than inflation. Considering how much God has blessed our decisions to challenge ourselves every single year, would you call that realistic or pessimistic?<BR/><BR/>By the way, when our church does pass a budget, those same “realists” who have objected during the process of adopting a budget don’t speak out against the church’s decision all year long and predict failure and demise, seemingly hoping for it. They support it. So their attitudes aren’t exactly the same as represented in this thread.<BR/><BR/>CLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com