tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post111470971116932623..comments2023-04-26T04:36:47.052-05:00Comments on Bailing Water: They sold their soul for rock and rollUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-48184998842453921422009-05-28T23:06:05.487-05:002009-05-28T23:06:05.487-05:00Chi Chi wrote:
"The smiles and attitudes of Homos...Chi Chi wrote:<br /><br />"The smiles and attitudes of Homos and Evangelicals is so manufactured because they want to intimidate their own consciences into submission via a trumped up emotion of happiness."<br /><br />Chi Chi would do well to learn, grammar and logic. Being brought to faith in Christ would benefit him as well. Pray for him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-24769968791117788182009-05-15T21:09:00.000-05:002009-05-15T21:09:00.000-05:00Now don't get so distressed.
Did I happen happen t...Now don't get so distressed.<br />Did I happen happen to mention that I'm impressed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-3359322569242761532009-04-27T23:57:00.002-05:002009-04-27T23:57:00.002-05:00Has anyone else noticed the similarity between the...Has anyone else noticed the similarity between the gay community and the Evengelical (rock n roll church) community?<br /><br />Broad and fake smiles; smiles that are self assurances that they are confident that what they are doing is right. The smiles and attitudes of Homos and Evangelicals is so manufactured because they want to intimidate their own consciences into submission via a trumped up emotion of happiness.Chi Chinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-28341953232269497822009-04-27T21:41:00.000-05:002009-04-27T21:41:00.000-05:00The one tune that Luther borrowed from "popular cu...The one tune that Luther borrowed from "popular culture" so to speak, for Vom Himmel Hoch, he rescinded and ended up writing a new tune for because he felt it had too strong worldly associations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-15385874533771492322009-04-27T21:04:00.000-05:002009-04-27T21:04:00.000-05:00Scotch, you find the term spiritual songs in the B...Scotch, you find the term spiritual songs in the Bible.<br /><br />April 27, 2009 2:48 PM<br /><br />Thanks for pointing that out. Certainly I do believe that a song can be a Spiritual song, ie: that it has a Spiritual meaning or is set aside for the reason of being used to convey a Spiritual truth or have an ecclesiastial intent. To me, that is wholly different than to say music is Spiritual as often thought and expressed by JK as well as others. <br /><br /> Thanks, <br />ScotchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-32399946968944970852009-04-27T20:33:00.000-05:002009-04-27T20:33:00.000-05:00That it is good and pleasing to God to sing spirit...That it is good and pleasing to God to sing spiritual songs is, I think, not hidden to any Christian. Everyone is acquainted not only with the example of the kings and prophets of the Old Testament (who praised God with poetry and all kinds of string music) but also with the common use of music, especially the singing of the psalms, in Christendom from the very beginning.<br /><br />St. Paul, too, instituted this in 1 Cor. 14:15 and bids the Colossians (3:16) heartily to sing spiritual songs and psalms unto the Lord in order that thereby God's Word and Christian doctrine might be used and practiced in diverse ways... I greatly desire that youth, which, after all, should be trained in music and other proper arts, might have something whereby it might be weaned from the love ballads and sex songs, and instead of these, learn something beneficial and take up the good with relish, as befits youth.<br /><br />Nor am I at all of the opinion that all the arts are to be overthrown and cast aside by the Gospel, as some superspiritual people protest; but I would gladly see all the arts, especially music, in the service of Him who has given and created them.<br /><br />Luther ... Introduction to Hymnbook of Johann Walther, 1525<br /><br /><br />Where is word of the only proper music being played on an organ or songs written in Luther's day (or before)? Where does Luther say music is improper if it moves the spirit to respond heartily? Luther even praises the stringed music of the past. And, he has harsh words for the "super-spiritual" that would bind others to their point of view. Luther recognized the gift of music (and musicians) as a blessing of God to be enjoyed and cultivated. Where in any of our churches are sex songs being played? Where in any of our churches are ballads lauding human love being played for worship? God continues to give the gift of music and musicians to his church today, even when they sing his praise with a different voice/sound than in the past. Condemn what is sinful, but don't make up new sins.<br /><br />My two cents ... and the coinage of someone far more astute than me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-47714373803389747882009-04-27T16:46:00.000-05:002009-04-27T16:46:00.000-05:00People who write (sic) behind another's mispeelled...People who write (sic) behind another's mispeelled words to point out that they, the one quoting did not mispell. It's very useeful especially when quoting very old documents, before specific spelings was codified. Or it may be used to suggest "The persin I'm quoting is a not only a moron for spelling ridiculous "rediculus" but also to point out that the mispeller has so little repect for the reader and the discussoin at hand that the didn't even run spell-Czech.<br /><br />Some body sic this up fore me:Chi Chinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-16303779972562321002009-04-27T14:48:00.000-05:002009-04-27T14:48:00.000-05:00Scotch, you find the term spiritual songs in the B...Scotch, you find the term spiritual songs in the Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-20410739410273140852009-04-27T14:27:00.000-05:002009-04-27T14:27:00.000-05:00Thank you so much for this eye-opening website!
I...Thank you so much for this eye-opening website!<br /><br />I am shocked that any churches (especially the churches of our dear Wisconsin Synod) would let these musicians play their heathenistic music in their worship services! (Especially that musician who was in the car with that girl!!!!) I know that our church only has an organ and a piano, so it would be pretty hard for them to play those kinds of songs! Maybe all the churches should make a law that no guitars or drums or any of the bad instrrumnts should ever be used. Do you think that would fix the problem?!?!?<br /><br />Thank you so much for all the hard work you people are doing with this website, and keep on bailing the water!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-82701963710090781662009-04-27T14:15:00.000-05:002009-04-27T14:15:00.000-05:00Read the post, watched the vid, 2 reactions:
1. W...Read the post, watched the vid, 2 reactions:<br /><br />1. What were you hoping to accomplish by posting that absurd video? You can only hurt your credibility with this broad-brush sensationalism.<br /><br />2. If you want to avoid everything that has ever been tainted with sin, you should probably join a monstic community. (Oh that's right, the reformers weren't too keen on monasticism. Next topic please.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-71265613160175376752009-04-27T08:10:00.000-05:002009-04-27T08:10:00.000-05:00By saying God alone is Spiritual, I did not mean t...By saying God alone is Spiritual, I did not mean that we do not have a Spiritual component or soul that God has given to each of us. <br /><br />The greater point of my previous statement is to say that humans tend to move toward worshipping things that God has created rather than worshipping Him. And we need to be on guard when assigning things with a Spiritual tag. <br /><br />The tendency then is to worship those "spiritual" things as done in Pagan and "natural" religions. <br /><br />Also, my apologies to any and all people who are offended by spelling errors. I call you folks "sic-ers". I just love to see all the "sic" placements everytime there is a spelling error. What is that about? To show how stupid someone is that they can"t spll a wurd?<br /><br />Humor people! <br />ScotchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-52813893071024322402009-04-27T07:45:00.000-05:002009-04-27T07:45:00.000-05:00JK,
You said:
"Music is a spiritual thing. It pro...JK, <br />You said:<br />"Music is a spiritual thing. It proceeds from the soul."<br /><br />Being an active jazz musician I am very familiar with this type of speak. I am familiar with statements and philosophies coming from musical greats as John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie and almost every other musician out there that would also claim what you say. <br /><br />I don't agree that it is Spiritual. It's fun, it's emotional. It's communicative in the jazz/improvising sense, where using an entirely different language you can communicate musical ideas and have "conversations", but they are not Spiritual conversations. That is a Pagan idea. Unless I have really missed something in the WORD, I am pretty sure that music is not as you claim. <br /><br />I know many/most who play music that would disagree with me, but I find absolutely NO Biblical support that music is Spritual. It may be soothing to the "soul" or better stated; to ones emotional state, but I can't find how it comes from the "soul." Just because Coltrane and others (as amazing as they were and worthy to listen to) have said such things, I don't know that their words are accurate on Spritual matters. To repeat them as authoritative is dangerous to your fellow Christians.<br /><br />Those who would assign a "Spritual" nature to music are setting it up to be an idol to worship. And some do. God alone is Spiritual and deserves our praise and adoration. <br /><br />These kinds of statements that you say are born out of misinformation and copying what someone else says. They tend to give a sort of etherial and hard to pin down meaning to a word that has infested the thoughts and ideas of most people in the world and in the Church. I find this talk very prevalent with my friends in the heterodox and Enthusiast churches circles as well as among my un-Christian friends. <br /><br />ScotchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-56175641745703390152009-04-25T11:41:00.000-05:002009-04-25T11:41:00.000-05:00Sorry I wasn't more clear...
The head/heart thing...Sorry I wasn't more clear...<br /><br />The head/heart thing was in reference to God, not us. I thought I was clear that I understood the human perspective. <br /><br />What I was saying is that God had an emotional response to our condition. It was a heart decision to save us. Grace and mercy are not a head thing.<br /><br />JKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-45424892636082439792009-04-25T07:16:00.000-05:002009-04-25T07:16:00.000-05:00Tim,
I never said they were worship or evangelism ...Tim,<br />I never said they were worship or evangelism events.<br /><br />Just trying to get a handle on why you would <B><I>ever</I></B> choose empty or especially false doctrinal content over Gospel-filled proclamation when using "Christian" music, corporate worship or otherwise.Anon 1155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-6471303495471537582009-04-25T00:42:00.000-05:002009-04-25T00:42:00.000-05:00Honestly those venues were not billed as worship o...Honestly those venues were not billed as worship or evangelism per se. They were famliy friendly entertainment and an outreach into the community. Its a way that says. "we are here in your community and we want to entertain you, feed you," and if thats all that happens so be it. But some people wanted to know more and have gotten to know Christ because of it.<br /><br />Indeed many connections were met at the venues and we have gained members because of them. There were members there who turned a community outreach event into an evangelism opportunity. <br /><br />So the focus was not really on the content of the music it was more on the kids events and the fellowship, the food and at the end there was a short law and gospel devotion.<br /><br />Is this okay to do? I think so. We don't do seeker stuff. We're not trying to convert someone in a park. Our music can be less worshipful. We are simply emphasizing our family friendliness to have a wholesome concert. We are refining our attempts to outreach to the community but then use these opportunities and connections for evangelism.<br /><br />The college nights are just live music playing in the background While the college kids ate pizza. There was a short devotion but basically was an open pizza night for UWM/MSOE students who happened to see the signs at Grace Lutheran downtown. We played "Oh taste and See" at that event in addition to a wide range of music.<br /><br />If we were running events as seeker "community events" I could see where we might have a different focus. I'm just not sure that everything we do has to be arranged the same.<br /><br />TimTim Niedfeldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12979010561771683678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-88449436637562676172009-04-24T22:08:00.000-05:002009-04-24T22:08:00.000-05:00"Perhaps you'd "feel" more comfortable "worshiping..."Perhaps you'd "feel" more comfortable "worshiping" in an Assemblies of God congregation."<br /><br />I laughed. I cried. I arrived at a similar conclusion. JK's enthusiasm is noted.<br /><br />Many of us have experienced world-class contemporary worship and found it to be vacuous. This so-called heart/mind dichotomy seems erroneous to me as well. If one doesn't believe what they're singing, setting it to an edgier tune won't seem to remedy that situation. <br /><br />I can't help but think of the plethora of Scriptures that indicate the condition of the heart is most certainly not God-pleasing:<br /><br />'Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.' Gen. 6:5<br /><br />"From their callous hearts comes iniquity ; the evil conceits of their minds know no limits." Ps. 73:7<br /><br />"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jer. 17:9<br /><br />"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." - Matt. 15:18-19<br /><br />Now maybe these Scriptures only apply to someone with a heart like mine. I have nothing good to offer God from my heart. It is perverse. <br /><br />But that is what has drawn me to Lutheranism, the benefits and comfort not available in other denominations. Confession and Absolution (albeit only having experienced the public form), true body and blood of Christ, saving baptism, the Living Word and everything else that preaches Christ crucified for the remission of sins. I find no comfort in the repetitive contemporary songs. <br /><br />But maybe that's just me, an old curmudgeon battling the Old Adam and finding nothing righteous in my flesh. Thanks be to God for Jesus Christ and Him crucified for a confessional crusader such as myself.<br /><br />RobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-75687252187996872782009-04-24T18:43:00.000-05:002009-04-24T18:43:00.000-05:00Tim, JK,
Good to hear you both agree that they ar...Tim, JK,<br /><br />Good to hear you both agree that they are weak songs and are leaving them behind.<br /><br />What about some of these songs (those named) that at best have confusing doctrinal content and at worst simply have false theology in them? Why merely say they are weak?<br /><br />Tim,<br />I'm also curious about your distinction between a "worship" song and one that is appropriate for college night or your outreach picnic. Why water down the message for these groups? "Upbeat" is not the same as lacking solid content.Anon 1155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-69175321225422663902009-04-24T14:18:00.000-05:002009-04-24T14:18:00.000-05:00Anon 1155 I have to admit those are weak songs. A...Anon 1155 I have to admit those are weak songs. And the more we add to our repertoire at Christ the Rock, the more these songs are getting left behind. I am coming to the conclusion that we need more songs with a bit of edge in a contemporary setting with solid Lutheran theology. I like to call them Man Songs. The kind that don't make men feel like sissies. And maybe that's where the problem is. It's been well documented that the post modern church has been feminized. <br /><br />JKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-67853126200845934542009-04-24T14:10:00.000-05:002009-04-24T14:10:00.000-05:00JK,
"But He showed us Grace and Mercy! This is no...JK,<br /><br />"But He showed us Grace and Mercy! This is not a head thing. This is a heart thing! His grace and mercy to us is not a logical reaction to our condition and what we have done. We deserve nothing!"<br /><br />You are wrong. Yes of course we deserve nothing and are saved by grace through faith. But we know this (in our heads) which then will move us emotionally (in our hearts). By your (il)logic, if you don't feel grace and mercy in your heart you don't have grace and mercy. The only thing you're right about is being too "touchy-feely."<br /><br />You write "I've been to concerts and can't deny the emotional connection the audience has with the performers." That's called a trance. Perhaps you'd "feel" more comfortable "worshiping" in an Assemblies of God congregation. <br /><br />Angry Andy,<br /><br />I in no way intended to assume God's name in my handle. This is what I intended to do:<br /><br />Tim=Timothy=Honoring God<br />ergo<br />TIMiAM=I am honoring God<br /><br />I can see your concern, as Eckhert Tolle urges his followers to recite the mantra "I am." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA<br /><br />Not coincidently, a quick search for "I am" on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am turns up many instances of that term being used in pop music including by Godsmack, Kid Rock, and an album by Static X called Wisconsin Death Trip. <br /><br />I will consider revising.TIMiAM (a sinner, not God)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-36405830531452475982009-04-24T14:04:00.000-05:002009-04-24T14:04:00.000-05:00They HAVE. I believe each one of those songs have...They HAVE. I believe each one of those songs have only debuted once from the early days when we took the song list from "Big Mama". I do not believe any of them will be played again. We now have a semi formal review with the worship team each week and have removed a good deal of some of those (in my opinion) regrettable songs. They are not aweful but they are not rich in message.<br /><br />It is true that some will "fight" for some somewhat cheesy praise songs. I know at one time I fought for "Above All" for worship. I still love the song but I am now on board for not singing it at church after a long email debate with pastor the length of which even BW has not seen from me.<br /><br />Yes it is true we started out with a little to much new and trendy and after grounding ourself have made a pointed direction to shy away from those meatless songs.<br /><br />I have been tempted to remove those songs from the web as I had in the past. However our band plays for things like a college night or Hallepalooza so some of those recordings are of our "upbeat" reportoire for those kinds of events. So some people wanted to have them out there to represent more than the worship music. At a minimun I should separate the two so people get an accurate reflection of what is in our current worship.<br /><br />When we move to the theater we will also start putting our entire service on the web. I'm thinking it will be right in the spot where the current showtime banner is each week. Just spent $7000 yesterday to upgrade our technology. Then everybody can check it out each week and offer their input. I welcome it.<br /><br />TimTim Niedfeldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12979010561771683678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-49031110872924699482009-04-24T11:55:00.000-05:002009-04-24T11:55:00.000-05:00Tim, but your church has also uses some very weak ...Tim, but your church has also uses some very weak contemporary songs, including some that are doctrinally-questionable. Such as: Shout to the North, Lord Reign in Me, Here I Am to Worship, and Heart of Worship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-88174609491587954842009-04-24T10:47:00.000-05:002009-04-24T10:47:00.000-05:00I started to post more on this thread the other da...I started to post more on this thread the other day and decided to delete it. I thought maybe it was a little too touchy feely. But I think in the WELS and among more conservative Lutherans there is this philosophy that being a Christian; the way we worship and many other aspects is all a intellectual thing. In other words a head thing and not a heart thing. And I agree to a point. We are Spocks when we could be more like Little Richards. OK, weird extreme analogy I admit, but it works.<br /><br />God created us as total beings in his image. We have a body, soul and mind. This includes the entire spectrum of emotions. Where would we all be had God remained as a logical Spock? The wages of sin is death! But He showed us Grace and Mercy! This is not a head thing. This is a heart thing! His grace and mercy to us is not a logical reaction to our condition and what we have done. We deserve nothing!<br /><br />Music is a spiritual thing. It proceeds from the soul. Many times I've been to concerts and can't deny the emotional connection the audience has with the performers. I have always thought, "Why can't people be more like this towards their Lord?" We should be like that towards God instead of the idol worship that goes on. I understand that fine line. But then I look to the example of King David freaking out in front of the Ark of the Covenant parade - IN IS UNDERWEAR!!!; to the point his wife was embarrassed for him. Was this a bad thing? I always got the impression from scripture that the Lord delighted in David's 'foolish' behavior.<br /><br />I just don't see a problem with rocking out a little bit in church as long as it is kept in perspective; that it is out of pure joy and that we are not trying evoke a response as to manipulate a decision. But then again, doesn't the heart usually come in to play?<br /><br />JKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-69442600503670216272009-04-23T18:20:00.000-05:002009-04-23T18:20:00.000-05:00Anon @9:27AM,
The Russian composer you're thinkin...Anon @9:27AM,<br /><br />The Russian composer you're thinking of is Igor Stravinsky, and the piece you are thinking of is the pagan-themed, 20th Century work, <I>Rite of Spring</I>.<br /><br /><B>Freddy Finkelstein</B>Freddy Finkelsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15594126750060699424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-69190664742700989272009-04-23T11:57:00.000-05:002009-04-23T11:57:00.000-05:00Well to be clear, when I talk about hymns....I do ...Well to be clear, when I talk about hymns....I do mean our hymns. CW hymns. Lutheran hymns. Everyone here is very obsessed with the notion that contemporary means using CCM top 40 etc. and rocking out each Sunday. I believe that comes from not really knowing the breadth of Christian music.<br /><br />No, what I'm talking about is the WELS contemporary that is developing. I believe our church has done nearly 125 CW hymns in a contemporary fashion. Our instruments are guitar lead, piano, bass, and drums. On occasion, we add a saxophone.<br /><br />There is also a brand of contemporary music such as Pastor Chad Walta's music. He only does piano and his hymns are basically scripture set to music. I mean he barely changes the words unless it is really necessary. When he played for our church he did the songs playing the piano in his white geneva. <br /><br />There are othe good contemporary songs out there..but I think for the most part you can use the following rule. If you hear it on Christian radio...You shouldn't use it in church. Like that awful song I hear the other day about singing my life song nearly 100 times...wth is a lifesong anyway? <br /><br />I just put this out there so that when I speak of music it is clear what I mean. I am a moderate in my contemporary music I can handle at church. So although I argue the right to self-determine these things..my personal taste would not appreciate a rockin' out stage show at church. Even my current congregation which is a daughter congregation of one of the synod's largest churches has gone a more conservative route on contemporary music than Big Mama does. I will also be there to curb any musician enthusiasm for more rambunctious variations than is wise. This suits our congregation well. <br /><br />In this narrow context of contemporary that I work in then, I can't say that our music's style is really all that different than listening to Leon Couch playing pachabel the way an organ should be played. (I do play some grand pipe organ music interspersed here and there in the service as well as pre-service or post-service)<br /><br />My ideas, although dismissed here merely out of hand, are just about expanding the musical bredth of what we offer in the church. Not about pushing the edge. That's why each implementation really has to be looked at individually to see how it fits in context. The extremes and dangers as are oft repeated here are for the most part not even present in most instances in the reality of things. They are just hypothetical situations of how things either are in the Evangelical world or how they could become if we lost control. The WELS has spent 100 years trying to excercise control and by and large we do it better than most. I think we can excercise that discernmnet and control with new things too.<br /><br />TimTim Niedfeldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12979010561771683678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8818242304034182219.post-88190660908452854362009-04-23T09:27:00.000-05:002009-04-23T09:27:00.000-05:00Tim,
A few thoughts for you based on your comment...Tim, <br />A few thoughts for you based on your comments below. <br /><br />>>Fine whatever...go to a different service if it doesn't suit you.>><br /><br />>>Content and message are everything. Style is totally secondary and separate. We can listen to the same hymn produced several different ways and rank them in order of preference but ultimately the message is the same and what is important. Obviously that is what we are arguing here. Is it separate or not? I vote it is.>><br /><br /><br />Tim, <br />I was told back in 1992 by a congregation president, when I voiced conerns of using a "Praise Band" and the generic (non Lutheran) sound and content of the songs, that "I should perhaps find another church that suits my needs better." So finally I left. That is a sad commentary. But ultimately I left not because of just the praise band, but because the pastor started going to Willow Creek for instruction on how to do outreach etc. It was a slow, but certain slide to a place that is extremely different and even less Lutheran seeimng than before. Many of us are feeling like we are getting pushed around and forced to accept what is to us, for several reasons, offensive. <br /><br /> I have had many, many encounters with praise music churches in WELS and I still can't explain the creepy feeling that I get. It's not that I am not familiar with this music or only listen to "Hymns of Praise." I have a wide pallet for music not unlike yourself. Perhaps I am creeped out because I have been in the circles of Reformed Enthusiasts before becoming a WELS person. So I know the routine. I know the message. I thought WLES was different and for a while it was. It seems to be copying the world and churches that are heterodox in substance. So yes, why do it? (referencing your comment above)<br /><br />A parallel: why do we not fully immerse when we baptize? It's the water and the Word. Why not? Why not go to the river? Because we know that the water and the word are what's important and we also want to mark a difference in what we teach and why we teach it. That is a good way to represent what we do believe. So yes, I see that content is NEARLY everything, but NOT everything. I really can't see putting hymn lyrics to a heavy metal song. Of course I think that would be an extreme example, but it follows the logic your setting out. Hymns do provide a meter that can be followed easily by the masses and are realatively easy to sing as opposed to modern song that has a lot of held notes and syncopations that are not suited for the masses. I know there are several classic hmns including the version of A Mighty Fortress that is metrically complex. But that's not the rule. <br /><br />Also, I can name several pastors and laymen, which I will not do at this time, who have compromised Fellowship principals to put into practice the Praise Service type thing and in an "outreach" effort. That is offensive whether intended or not. <br /><br />And to your thoughts of emotions and people being controlled or shall I clarify, "influenced", is a little faulty. Music history can show you many examples of riots being caused by content or presentation. Sorry, I can't remember the Russian composer or the specific incident who was banned because of the impact he made on the masses and the insuing riots. <br /><br />Content is not everything. David Letterman once put an entire Thanksgiving turkey dinner in a blender and made it into a smoothy. It looked bad and the people on the street really were repulsed by the taste. But it still had everthing that a nice, sit down, well presented Thanksgiving dinner had. But not so good and tasty in the end. <br /><br />Seperate enough or not, you vote yes, I vote no. Not seperate enough, that is if you have doctrine that is worthy to believe and be proclaimed in all you say and do in all of its fine and pthy detail. I think Freed Finkelstein wrote about Catholicity and music a few weeks back that made much sense. That is a huge thing that also needs to be considered. <br /><br />Scotch in the home, not at church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com