 |
| http://www.holyword.net/ |
- http://www.holyword.net/
- Vicar in Mission Setting - Sent to Holy Word-
- Mission Encouragment resources sent to Holy Word North
- The Antioch Foundtion looking to support Church Growth methods:
Monday, May 30, 2011
Holy Word - 30 + year old congregation receives extensive mission dollars
http://scdwels.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/2011-05-dmb.pdf
Saturday, May 28, 2011
A Pastor for Sale - WELS Pastor- for profit
I may not have time to Admister the Means of Grace but for $1200 I can be your life coach..
http://www.nextdisciple.com/giaprojects/crosstraincoaching.html
Coaching fees are based on the services provided. We will meet and have follow-up sessions until you feel that you have accomplished your personal and professional goals. The fee schedule is $1200.00 for one year (a monthly webinar and personal meeting). Emails are always available between visits.
Additional meetings can be negotiated on an individual basis. 24-hour notice is requested for cancellation of a coaching session. “No-shows” will be counted as completed services. We will talk as often as needed in accomplishing your goals, typically on the telephone or via web based methodology. If possible and necessary to enhance your performance, we will schedule to meet in person. Helping you achieve greater success is always our primary objective.
-------------------------------
Here we thought - Saving souls was his business.....
Will WELS Pastor be Disciplined?
Pastor Don Patterson has been making use of Church Growth methods as documented on this blog and others. Currently a WELS member is documenting his journey here: http://hereistand2011.blogspot.com/
One has to wonder if any discpline will come down on Patterson. Patterson is noterious throughout the South Central district for disciplining pastors who don't follow his lead.
One has to wonder if any discpline will come down on Patterson. Patterson is noterious throughout the South Central district for disciplining pastors who don't follow his lead.
Holy Word Pastor Saves Souls ?
From Luther Rocks Blog...
On May 18th we submitted the following via email to the leadership at Holy Word Lutheran Church which precipitated what has been chronicled earlier on this blog.
"Pastor Patterson et al,
I have to disagree when you say (I believe you are saying this) that 1 Cor. 5:19 says that all men are reconciled to God; as in forgiven therefore justified and righteous before faith. This is certainly not the case with say for instance Cain or Edom of the OT. The two verses preceding contradict this as the context refers to those ‘in Christ’ as in ‘have faith in Christ’. I believe the Bible does speak about believers the same way whether it is before or after Christ’s passion. The trouble is that many in WELS are teaching that UOJ is in the wrong place. It is displaced from Christ and on the whole unbelieving world. Therefore in order to make the teaching work you have to change the meanings and context of words. It is confusing.
Our focus is on Christ as it has been for all believers of all time; beginning with the promise in the Garden of Eden. God was (and is) reconciling (ongoing) the world (since it is God’s will for all to be saved) for the sake of Christ so that by faith believers (who are sinners) would be saved. As Job said in the OT…I know that my Redeemer liveth! Christ possesses the forgiveness, righteousness and justification that He won (or would win) – objectively - for all and it is imputed to those who believe in Him as their Savior for all times. By Grace through FAITH ALONE. Christ stands in no one’s place aside from faith. He that believes…will be saved…He who doesn’t is damned…no belief in Christ…means you remain in your sins.
It is troublesome how you handled a meeting with my wife Lisa. You acknowledged that you did not want to hop over my headship in your email of 4-20-11 and yet you communicated with her via email on 4-18-11 unbeknownst to me. Here is the brief email in its entirety; “I have no desire to get between you and Joe on the things that he has recently taken a stand on. Just want you to know if you and Joe desire to talk to me or confront me together I am willing. Otherwise, I will leave you to follow your husband and seek God's will in the Scriptures. I trust that you are thoughtful Christians.” You did not hear from her. I told you in my email two days later that she was right with me. Instead of leaving her to me, on the 28th of April, approximately 15 minutes before arriving at her place of employment to have your vehicle serviced, you texted Lisa if you could speak to her for a minute and ended up leaving almost 90 minutes later. Needless to say it was in my opinion as well as that of Lisa and her employer (also a member of your congregation) that you took advantage of the situation. You have said more than once that these kinds of discussions are a waste of time for you; that they entangle and keep you from doing your job. It was disturbingly evident when you emphatically declared to Lisa more than once that “your job is to save souls”. She called you on it and I am thankful for that. She IS my better half. Lisa was right by correcting you that it is the work of the Holy Ghost to save souls and that your job is to merely proclaim the Word. When she pressed you as to why you would say such a thing, you changed the subject.
Pastor Patterson’s background from the Holy Word website:” In addition to serving the congregation of Holy Word, he has also served the church at large. In 1996, he was appointed second Vice President of the South Central District of the WELS, and in 2000 he was appointed first Vice President. He is currently serving on the Board of Directors for Wisconsin Lutheran Child and Famliy(sic) Services, and he has spoken at numerous conferences, marriage retreats, and seminars. He has also written several articles for various synod publications such as Forward in Christ, Meditations, Lutheran Parenting, Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly, and Lutheran Leadership.” And when in the short time I was an Elder and saw what Pastor had on his plate…my first thought (sic) was, ‘Hey! He works for Holy Word!
On May 18th we submitted the following via email to the leadership at Holy Word Lutheran Church which precipitated what has been chronicled earlier on this blog.
"Pastor Patterson et al,
I have to disagree when you say (I believe you are saying this) that 1 Cor. 5:19 says that all men are reconciled to God; as in forgiven therefore justified and righteous before faith. This is certainly not the case with say for instance Cain or Edom of the OT. The two verses preceding contradict this as the context refers to those ‘in Christ’ as in ‘have faith in Christ’. I believe the Bible does speak about believers the same way whether it is before or after Christ’s passion. The trouble is that many in WELS are teaching that UOJ is in the wrong place. It is displaced from Christ and on the whole unbelieving world. Therefore in order to make the teaching work you have to change the meanings and context of words. It is confusing.
Our focus is on Christ as it has been for all believers of all time; beginning with the promise in the Garden of Eden. God was (and is) reconciling (ongoing) the world (since it is God’s will for all to be saved) for the sake of Christ so that by faith believers (who are sinners) would be saved. As Job said in the OT…I know that my Redeemer liveth! Christ possesses the forgiveness, righteousness and justification that He won (or would win) – objectively - for all and it is imputed to those who believe in Him as their Savior for all times. By Grace through FAITH ALONE. Christ stands in no one’s place aside from faith. He that believes…will be saved…He who doesn’t is damned…no belief in Christ…means you remain in your sins.
It is troublesome how you handled a meeting with my wife Lisa. You acknowledged that you did not want to hop over my headship in your email of 4-20-11 and yet you communicated with her via email on 4-18-11 unbeknownst to me. Here is the brief email in its entirety; “I have no desire to get between you and Joe on the things that he has recently taken a stand on. Just want you to know if you and Joe desire to talk to me or confront me together I am willing. Otherwise, I will leave you to follow your husband and seek God's will in the Scriptures. I trust that you are thoughtful Christians.” You did not hear from her. I told you in my email two days later that she was right with me. Instead of leaving her to me, on the 28th of April, approximately 15 minutes before arriving at her place of employment to have your vehicle serviced, you texted Lisa if you could speak to her for a minute and ended up leaving almost 90 minutes later. Needless to say it was in my opinion as well as that of Lisa and her employer (also a member of your congregation) that you took advantage of the situation. You have said more than once that these kinds of discussions are a waste of time for you; that they entangle and keep you from doing your job. It was disturbingly evident when you emphatically declared to Lisa more than once that “your job is to save souls”. She called you on it and I am thankful for that. She IS my better half. Lisa was right by correcting you that it is the work of the Holy Ghost to save souls and that your job is to merely proclaim the Word. When she pressed you as to why you would say such a thing, you changed the subject.
Pastor Patterson’s background from the Holy Word website:” In addition to serving the congregation of Holy Word, he has also served the church at large. In 1996, he was appointed second Vice President of the South Central District of the WELS, and in 2000 he was appointed first Vice President. He is currently serving on the Board of Directors for Wisconsin Lutheran Child and Famliy(sic) Services, and he has spoken at numerous conferences, marriage retreats, and seminars. He has also written several articles for various synod publications such as Forward in Christ, Meditations, Lutheran Parenting, Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly, and Lutheran Leadership.” And when in the short time I was an Elder and saw what Pastor had on his plate…my first thought (sic) was, ‘Hey! He works for Holy Word!
Austin WELS Pastor becomes vindictive
Holy Word Lutheran Church and WELS has broken Fellowship With Us
http://hereistand2011.blogspot.com/2011/05/holy-word-lutheran-church-and-wels-has.html
Friday, May 27, 2011Holy Word Lutheran Church and WELS has broken Fellowship With Us
Last fall Pastor Patterson again approached me about becoming an Elder for Holy Word. I had mixed emotions about accepting a nomination. So much study about worship and practice had been done and it became clear to me that Christ the Rock and Holy Word to a lesser extent did not have "quia" subscriptions to the Lutheran Confessions and the Book of Concord. From my perspective through these two churches, I wondered if WELS still had one.(Pastors and Teachers swear an oath to uphold them both in light of the Scriptures.) After prayerful considerations and discussions with my wife I accepted.
In mid-November I had an orientation lunch with Pastor. I remember him stressing that if I had any hidden agendas that I should reconsider my nomination. Since I thought what I would be bringing to the table would be scriptural...how would one construe this as 'hidden'? I also initiated a conversation about justification and brought up Becker's paper regarding Kokomo and my desire to have a meaningful discussion about it. He stressed that he came from the Wauwatosa Theology camp and that we would reciprocate papers; me sending the Becker Paper and him sending me a recent paper by Pastor Rautenberg reviewing an essay by JP Koehler regarding legalism and bravado of orthodoxy. A discussion about justification did not take place prior to election of church officers in December; though I did send a reminder.
After I became an Elder I again tried to initiate a discussion regarding justification. I had a need to know where he stood on Objective Justification. I got my answer the last Sunday of January. You can hear it at approximately 22:22 of this sermon audio (click on the second sermon for January 30th, 2011 & play it from 21:00 - 24:00+ for context):
http://www.holyword.net/site/audiodownloads.asp?sec_id=140005270
There are many flavors of this doctrine of Objective Justification being preached. It is confusing. I took exception that Pastor Patterson was preaching that my sins were forgiven before I was born. What good was my baptism? What good are the Means of Grace? What good is the Ministry of the Keys? How does this work with Old Testament believers...where they forgiven too before they were born?
Discussions ensued until last Saturday (May 21st) when we received this email from the leadership at Holy Word:
Dear Joe and Lisa,
We received your latest email and read through all of your concerns. We honestly disagree on all of your points and conclusions. All of your concerns are about practical matters over which God's people have freedom to disagree without the charge of sin - except for one. Your unbelief in objective justification is doctrinal and is not acceptable. In short, it is the deal breaker. I have talked to you about this in person on two occasions. On one of those Pastor Gurgel and Brad Johnston were also present. Pastor Gurgel has talked to both of you in person on two different occasions and elders have engaged you in emails about the very same subject. We are all convinced that your doctrine is unscriptural or unconfessional. Therefore we cannot be in fellowship with you until you repent of this. Your fellowship at the Lord's Table is therefore suspended until you recant your teachings and your writings regarding objective justification.
In addition, your ways of attacking me and the many recent decisions of our congregation are not appropriate. So, even if you repent of your false doctrine regarding objective justification, we have so much more to talk about regarding your critical spirit.
If you wish to pursue this any further, we will meet with you both. In that meeting, we will have two elders and me present. We will not discuss objective justification as if it is a debatable doctrine. We will not entertain changing our decision regarding the use of Cornerstone, we will not change Jocelyn's title from deaconess to anything else, and we will not change our plans to help lay people teach God's Word to God's people. We are convinced that all of these things are good and right in our fellowship and since you have been heard and we have decided not to follow you - you have to accept them. In short, the debate is over. No more discussion! The mission of making disciples must go on!
Our stance is firm but so is our love for you in Christ. Our highest goal is to see you in heaven some day.
To God be the Glory,
Pastor Patterson and the Board of Elders
Holy Word Lutheran Church
We responded May 22nd:
Dear Leadership of Holy Word,
Thank you for your email.
For those who may be scratching their heads as to why we are discussing all of this, it originated from a message preached by Pastor Patterson the last Sunday in January. I have attached a clip of the comment in context. It occurs at approximately 1:14.
Firstly, you falsely accuse us of unbelief in Objective Justification. (OJ) Nowhere have we denied OJ! We have rejected how Pastor Patterson teaches it along with many in the WELS. It is wrong to preach that one's sins are forgiven before they were born. It is not true for me as a New Testament believer in Christ anymore than it was for Old Testament believers or anyone for that matter. When Pr. Patterson in his email of 4-20-2011 says, “Truly, so much that we proclaim about the work of Christ cannot be said in the exact same words about the OT saints and their faith.” He is teaching a kind of dispensationalism. We sing on Easter ‘I know that my Redeemer Lives just as Job proclaimed in Job 19:25. St. Paul goes to great lengths in the 4th chapter of Romans to show us that the NT believers are the offspring of Abraham just as the OT believers are. The end of the chapter dovetails perfectly into chapter 5 to drive the point home the sinner is justified by grace for Christ’s sake through faith.
NIV Romans 4:22 – 5:2 “22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.”
And this from The Apology IV, 57
“57] And throughout the prophets and the psalms this worship, this latreiva, is highly praised, although the Law does not teach the gratuitous remission of sins. But the Fathers knew the promise concerning Christ, that God for Christ's sake wished to remit sins. Therefore, since they understood that Christ would be the price for our sins, they knew that our works are not a price for so great a matter [could not pay so great a debt]. Accordingly, they received gratuitous mercy and remission of sins by faith, just as the saints in the New Testament.”
When Pr. Patterson teaches that a person’s sins were forgiven (and therefore absolved and saved as Pr. Buchholz proclaims) without faith is a type of universalism. The passages used to support these teachings are always in the context of faith. Even Pastor Gurgel in his last visit left assured that our confession was Biblical. He acknowledged the way words are used regarding OJ creates confusion; in fact he opined that 'the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to Kokomo'. I would add too that the teaching of forgiveness is flawed in the clip as well after 1:14. As the Apology quote shows, God has it in His heart to forgive those who are truly repentant. And He gladly does forgive those in faith for the sake of Christ. But there can be no forgiveness if there is no contrition. So to teach forgiveness without repentance does the offender no good any more than teaching absolution without the Law. Ironically, you are asking me for contrition and yet Patterson preaches I am already forgiven.
Secondly, to break fellowship with us would require you to forbid us at the Lord’s Table. But you say you are suspending our participation in Communion pending a recanting of alleged false doctrine. This is a mixing of processes. Please clarify for us if you are releasing/ex-communicating us pending a repentance of sin or are you retaining our membership and suspending Communion pending contrition?
Finally, there are at least two of you that are not convinced that we are unscriptural and/or unconfessional on all counts. Pastor Gurgel visited and genuinely discussed with us regarding our confession and was assured we were not in error. Brad Johnston who admitted in our meeting that ‘it was all over his head’ regarding OJ should have been disqualified.
Regarding your comment about my critical spirit I will take it as a compliment as Martin Luther would have. However I will let the Lord judge whether your inference of the assuredness of our salvation is a sin.
We will await your reply regarding our membership.
In His Grace and Mercy,
Joe
Holy Word replied back to us on May 26th:
Joe and Lisa,
If I understand all of your recent emails correctly, you wish to remain members of Holy Word only if you can convince us of the errors of our ways in regard to my preaching that "we were forgiven by God in Christ before we believed that we are forgiven" and the 8 practical matters you have listed.
Since we do not believe we have erred on any of these issues that you have sited, we cannot acknowledge that we are still in doctrinal agreement with you. Therefore, we should not commune together. In keeping with a consistent practice of the doctrine of fellowship you should mark and avoid us as persistent errorists and we are marking and avoiding you as persistent errorists as well. (Romans 16:17-18). This posture is never pleasant but necessary to protect God's people from divisive teachings.
Jack Parrish and Matt Wordell have agreed to join me in meeting with both of you to offer any clarifications you need regarding our doctrine of fellowship and the issue of your membership at Holy Word and the WELS. We will not meet with you to discuss objective justification or the 8 points you outlined as your plan to change the direction of Holy Word. You have been heard on those issues and we honestly disagree with you.
We are all free next Wednesday night, June 1 at 6:30PM or 7:00 PM, whichever time suits you. We would like to meet at church in the conference room. Are you willing to meet us?
In Him,
Pastor Don Patterson
We responded later in the day:
All,
Since the agenda would already be set; since there would be no discussion allowed and since we do not care to be subjected in such manner as previous meetings, we respectfully decline. There are many people who do not believe as you do about justification. There are many pastors who do not believe nor preach it as you do. Since you refuse discussion and have made your position clear to us, there is nothing more to say.
I pray that this explanation is satisfactory.
By Grace through faith in Christ,
Joe
I will be talking more about the other 7 issues in coming blogs.
Robert Preus in his book "Justification and Rome" talks about the vast arrays of variation on the doctrine of Justification among Lutherans. How have we become so disjointed on this pillar by which the Church stands or falls? The doctrine that our church fathers from the 16th century so eloquently exposed from the heretics of the day? I can only think of one passage that answers this question...Genesis 3:4-5, " 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - KJV
To preach a forgiveness of sins apart from faith is a type of universalism that some Reformed preachers are already preaching. WELS has been wistfully gazing towards the Reformed for some time now on 'how to do church'.
http://hereistand2011.blogspot.com/2011/05/holy-word-lutheran-church-and-wels-has.html
Friday, May 27, 2011Holy Word Lutheran Church and WELS has broken Fellowship With Us
Last fall Pastor Patterson again approached me about becoming an Elder for Holy Word. I had mixed emotions about accepting a nomination. So much study about worship and practice had been done and it became clear to me that Christ the Rock and Holy Word to a lesser extent did not have "quia" subscriptions to the Lutheran Confessions and the Book of Concord. From my perspective through these two churches, I wondered if WELS still had one.(Pastors and Teachers swear an oath to uphold them both in light of the Scriptures.) After prayerful considerations and discussions with my wife I accepted.
In mid-November I had an orientation lunch with Pastor. I remember him stressing that if I had any hidden agendas that I should reconsider my nomination. Since I thought what I would be bringing to the table would be scriptural...how would one construe this as 'hidden'? I also initiated a conversation about justification and brought up Becker's paper regarding Kokomo and my desire to have a meaningful discussion about it. He stressed that he came from the Wauwatosa Theology camp and that we would reciprocate papers; me sending the Becker Paper and him sending me a recent paper by Pastor Rautenberg reviewing an essay by JP Koehler regarding legalism and bravado of orthodoxy. A discussion about justification did not take place prior to election of church officers in December; though I did send a reminder.
After I became an Elder I again tried to initiate a discussion regarding justification. I had a need to know where he stood on Objective Justification. I got my answer the last Sunday of January. You can hear it at approximately 22:22 of this sermon audio (click on the second sermon for January 30th, 2011 & play it from 21:00 - 24:00+ for context):
http://www.holyword.net/site/audiodownloads.asp?sec_id=140005270
There are many flavors of this doctrine of Objective Justification being preached. It is confusing. I took exception that Pastor Patterson was preaching that my sins were forgiven before I was born. What good was my baptism? What good are the Means of Grace? What good is the Ministry of the Keys? How does this work with Old Testament believers...where they forgiven too before they were born?
Discussions ensued until last Saturday (May 21st) when we received this email from the leadership at Holy Word:
Dear Joe and Lisa,
We received your latest email and read through all of your concerns. We honestly disagree on all of your points and conclusions. All of your concerns are about practical matters over which God's people have freedom to disagree without the charge of sin - except for one. Your unbelief in objective justification is doctrinal and is not acceptable. In short, it is the deal breaker. I have talked to you about this in person on two occasions. On one of those Pastor Gurgel and Brad Johnston were also present. Pastor Gurgel has talked to both of you in person on two different occasions and elders have engaged you in emails about the very same subject. We are all convinced that your doctrine is unscriptural or unconfessional. Therefore we cannot be in fellowship with you until you repent of this. Your fellowship at the Lord's Table is therefore suspended until you recant your teachings and your writings regarding objective justification.
In addition, your ways of attacking me and the many recent decisions of our congregation are not appropriate. So, even if you repent of your false doctrine regarding objective justification, we have so much more to talk about regarding your critical spirit.
If you wish to pursue this any further, we will meet with you both. In that meeting, we will have two elders and me present. We will not discuss objective justification as if it is a debatable doctrine. We will not entertain changing our decision regarding the use of Cornerstone, we will not change Jocelyn's title from deaconess to anything else, and we will not change our plans to help lay people teach God's Word to God's people. We are convinced that all of these things are good and right in our fellowship and since you have been heard and we have decided not to follow you - you have to accept them. In short, the debate is over. No more discussion! The mission of making disciples must go on!
Our stance is firm but so is our love for you in Christ. Our highest goal is to see you in heaven some day.
To God be the Glory,
Pastor Patterson and the Board of Elders
Holy Word Lutheran Church
We responded May 22nd:
Dear Leadership of Holy Word,
Thank you for your email.
For those who may be scratching their heads as to why we are discussing all of this, it originated from a message preached by Pastor Patterson the last Sunday in January. I have attached a clip of the comment in context. It occurs at approximately 1:14.
Firstly, you falsely accuse us of unbelief in Objective Justification. (OJ) Nowhere have we denied OJ! We have rejected how Pastor Patterson teaches it along with many in the WELS. It is wrong to preach that one's sins are forgiven before they were born. It is not true for me as a New Testament believer in Christ anymore than it was for Old Testament believers or anyone for that matter. When Pr. Patterson in his email of 4-20-2011 says, “Truly, so much that we proclaim about the work of Christ cannot be said in the exact same words about the OT saints and their faith.” He is teaching a kind of dispensationalism. We sing on Easter ‘I know that my Redeemer Lives just as Job proclaimed in Job 19:25. St. Paul goes to great lengths in the 4th chapter of Romans to show us that the NT believers are the offspring of Abraham just as the OT believers are. The end of the chapter dovetails perfectly into chapter 5 to drive the point home the sinner is justified by grace for Christ’s sake through faith.
NIV Romans 4:22 – 5:2 “22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.”
And this from The Apology IV, 57
“57] And throughout the prophets and the psalms this worship, this latreiva, is highly praised, although the Law does not teach the gratuitous remission of sins. But the Fathers knew the promise concerning Christ, that God for Christ's sake wished to remit sins. Therefore, since they understood that Christ would be the price for our sins, they knew that our works are not a price for so great a matter [could not pay so great a debt]. Accordingly, they received gratuitous mercy and remission of sins by faith, just as the saints in the New Testament.”
When Pr. Patterson teaches that a person’s sins were forgiven (and therefore absolved and saved as Pr. Buchholz proclaims) without faith is a type of universalism. The passages used to support these teachings are always in the context of faith. Even Pastor Gurgel in his last visit left assured that our confession was Biblical. He acknowledged the way words are used regarding OJ creates confusion; in fact he opined that 'the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to Kokomo'. I would add too that the teaching of forgiveness is flawed in the clip as well after 1:14. As the Apology quote shows, God has it in His heart to forgive those who are truly repentant. And He gladly does forgive those in faith for the sake of Christ. But there can be no forgiveness if there is no contrition. So to teach forgiveness without repentance does the offender no good any more than teaching absolution without the Law. Ironically, you are asking me for contrition and yet Patterson preaches I am already forgiven.
Secondly, to break fellowship with us would require you to forbid us at the Lord’s Table. But you say you are suspending our participation in Communion pending a recanting of alleged false doctrine. This is a mixing of processes. Please clarify for us if you are releasing/ex-communicating us pending a repentance of sin or are you retaining our membership and suspending Communion pending contrition?
Finally, there are at least two of you that are not convinced that we are unscriptural and/or unconfessional on all counts. Pastor Gurgel visited and genuinely discussed with us regarding our confession and was assured we were not in error. Brad Johnston who admitted in our meeting that ‘it was all over his head’ regarding OJ should have been disqualified.
Regarding your comment about my critical spirit I will take it as a compliment as Martin Luther would have. However I will let the Lord judge whether your inference of the assuredness of our salvation is a sin.
We will await your reply regarding our membership.
In His Grace and Mercy,
Joe
Holy Word replied back to us on May 26th:
Joe and Lisa,
If I understand all of your recent emails correctly, you wish to remain members of Holy Word only if you can convince us of the errors of our ways in regard to my preaching that "we were forgiven by God in Christ before we believed that we are forgiven" and the 8 practical matters you have listed.
Since we do not believe we have erred on any of these issues that you have sited, we cannot acknowledge that we are still in doctrinal agreement with you. Therefore, we should not commune together. In keeping with a consistent practice of the doctrine of fellowship you should mark and avoid us as persistent errorists and we are marking and avoiding you as persistent errorists as well. (Romans 16:17-18). This posture is never pleasant but necessary to protect God's people from divisive teachings.
Jack Parrish and Matt Wordell have agreed to join me in meeting with both of you to offer any clarifications you need regarding our doctrine of fellowship and the issue of your membership at Holy Word and the WELS. We will not meet with you to discuss objective justification or the 8 points you outlined as your plan to change the direction of Holy Word. You have been heard on those issues and we honestly disagree with you.
We are all free next Wednesday night, June 1 at 6:30PM or 7:00 PM, whichever time suits you. We would like to meet at church in the conference room. Are you willing to meet us?
In Him,
Pastor Don Patterson
We responded later in the day:
All,
Since the agenda would already be set; since there would be no discussion allowed and since we do not care to be subjected in such manner as previous meetings, we respectfully decline. There are many people who do not believe as you do about justification. There are many pastors who do not believe nor preach it as you do. Since you refuse discussion and have made your position clear to us, there is nothing more to say.
I pray that this explanation is satisfactory.
By Grace through faith in Christ,
Joe
I will be talking more about the other 7 issues in coming blogs.
Robert Preus in his book "Justification and Rome" talks about the vast arrays of variation on the doctrine of Justification among Lutherans. How have we become so disjointed on this pillar by which the Church stands or falls? The doctrine that our church fathers from the 16th century so eloquently exposed from the heretics of the day? I can only think of one passage that answers this question...Genesis 3:4-5, " 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - KJV
To preach a forgiveness of sins apart from faith is a type of universalism that some Reformed preachers are already preaching. WELS has been wistfully gazing towards the Reformed for some time now on 'how to do church'.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
